Kageoni

Hello, I have a question to ask those legal experts to make sure a someone does not get in trouble. It isn't anything major, as so far, I don't think it will be much of a problem. It is just a confirmation for me, because I think I am able to do this.)

I might be able to fly with a very close person in my life on a King Air 200 quite often. I happen to only be a student pilot (soon-to-be private pilot, if lucky), I do not intend on logging hours as I obviously cannot. But if I am able to fly with him (He will be flying as Part 91), will I be able to sit in the front and handle communications?

rickair7777

Part 91, assuming this king air does not require an SIC...

Sure, any passenger can do that. The pilot can also allow you to manipulate the flight controls to any degree that he's comfortable with. If the pilot is not a CFI you can't log it as dual but you can still get some hands-on practice.

Also technically...you can log it under "total flight time". Total time is actually not an FAA-defined time-logging category so you can put anything you want there. But if you're career-oriented that type of time logging could create uncomfortable questions with future employers so probably best not to go there.

91K/135/121 it gets more complicated, although small 135 aircraft often have a pax in the co-pilot seat.

Kageoni

Thank you for the heads up. I do have a question though. The pilot is a CFI, but I do not have a ME rating and he is not an MEI either. So referring to the "If he is not a CFI, you can't log it as dual statement", Can I still log it?

Greg Bockelman

Total flight time notwithstanding, (I am not sure you can do that. I can't find a bucket in 61.51 where it fits.) you can't log it as instruction received because the CFI isn't legal to provide that instruction.

You could put it in your logbook as sort of a diary entry to remind yourself of the flight, but realistically, it can't count for anything.

Kageoni

Alright, gotcha. Thank you for clearing this up.

TTOCSMCC

Setting aside the legal question, it will undoubtedly be a great learning experience. So try to tag along as often as you can, but I doubt there would be any real value in logging the time. If you intend to make a career of flying it won't help you get a job anywhere, and you don't want your logbook to look suspect when you present it at a future interview.

Good luck with your flying!

rickair7777

That's why it IS legal to log...because the FA does not define that bucket. There is also no FAR that says you can only log time as defined by the FAA...you can log whatever and however you want. You can even falsify your logbook all day long as long as you never attempt to use any of the false time for FA currency/aeronautical experience, or use those false totals on any federal paperwork (ie medical).

You are only required to accurately log the minimum time required for needed currency & aeronautical experience for certs/ratings you apply for. Other than that you can log nothing, or anything at all.

Your logbook is not really an official document...certain entries for required endorsements, sign-offs, and aeronautical experience are official and need to be correct.

As an example there are highly-experienced folks who log only time/LDGs/IAPs needed for currency even though they fly much more.

Another example...I knew a guy (all around idiot) who padded his logbook to build time. He got hired by a regional but for his checkride he had to fill out an 8710...at that moment he realized that while lying to a bottom-feeder regional is not a federal crime, lying on an 8710 is. He put his correct time on the 8710 (still enough for the checkride), but somebody noticed the delta and he got fired. At least he didn't go to jail.

Correct. The student does not need a ME rating (how would he get one?), but the instructor must have a CFI-ME rating to give dual to any student in a twin.

That's exactly what it would be if logged as total time, but see my comment about future employers above.

Gypsy Pilot

Bravo Sir! I've been reading logbook nazi's pontificate on this site for years and it's been driving me nuts! When I get the same question from guys, I always tell them that you can log the time spent "in your bean bag chair naked eating Cheetos", the real question is how you apply that time, and what you actually want in your logbook. As you stated, currency, aeronautical experience, etc. are the minimum requirements, anything on top of that is essentially gravy.

GP