Name User

If you go back and start from the beginning you'll find I said we'd be single pilot not no pilot. My point with all these safety features that have been added is that they are there because pilots make mistakes.

Gear warning horn...because we forget to lower the gear
T/o config warning...because we forget to set the flaps
Low fuel warning...because we forget to switch tanks
Overspeed warning...because we forget to adjust the throttles
EGPWS...because we fly into the side of hills
Wind shear warning...because we have getthereitis

The list is litterally endless. And only exists because pilots make mistakes. Machines don't. When is the last time you punched 1+1 into your calculator and it came back with anything other than 2?

CBreezy

Nope..they never make a mistake.


https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44574290

OldWeasel

Well, that is the argument. Faulty sensors could very well be the weak link in this chain. The computer will respond with the correct answer to erroneous sensor input. Will “HAL” relinquish control or take Dave into a smoking hole because of a self protect law?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Name User

How did it make a mistake? The computer drove the car exactly as programmed. What caused the accident was the limitations of its sensory data. Not to mention, a human driver would've killed the pedestrian as well, and maybe rolled the car as they tried to avoid them.

Name User

Yes the Boeing design and logic was bad. Instead of two sensors for this particular issue a better design would've been at least three. And if more than one disagrees you go to failsafe pitch/power programming. Writing the code will be key.

It's funny because people point to the few Tesla accidents and say "this is why cars won't drive themselves". Yet what you don't see are the plunging accident rates on cars equipped with automatic safety features like front end collision avoidance, or lane keep, etc.

The one big thing we have going for us is our excellent safety record over the last decade. However that doesn't mean unsafe events haven't occurred. And automation will continue to take tasks away from the pilot to make flying even safer.

Bluesideup1

The fact that you think machines don't make mistakes is why you will never get it. The sad part is computers and machines make mistakes all the time or have you never seen a blue screen of death, had your phone freeze or restart, locked up a web browser, never glitched, hung, had a logic error. I guess you have no idea what HTTP 404 is, syntax error, kernel panic, general protection fault, reboot, Fatal exception error, stack overflow?

I guess in your world that there is no such thing as tech support because why should there be when machines are perfect and never make any errors?

As a matter of fact there are over 15,000 error codes that can be caused by machines just on the windows system.

For example a hardware malfunction in an airbus computer fighting to take the pilot out of the system and trying to crash itself:

https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/the...11-gw26ae.html

I have had an transport aircraft at level flight start climbing for no reason. If we didn't disconnect the autopilot it would have climbed itself right into a stall at 41,000+ feet and killed everyone on board.

Automation tends to makes the job safer but it will never be a replacement for having people upfront to make the decisions that engineers and computer programmers can't even think of. Let alone faulty systems, weather, turbulence, mountain waves, icy landings or the other myriad of things that a two pilot system captures the error or condition before it endangers the airplane.

I have in the same transport category airplane been on an ILS when the glideslope shot up then down to full defection with the airplane trying to follow it right into the ground. Once again if we didn't turn off the autopilot the airplane had a good chance of crashing short of the runway.

Please stop with your computers are infallible and only people make mistakes because the fact is without human intervention the airplanes right now would be killing people left and right. You just don't get to hear about all the times that pilots have saved the airplane by going click click to the automation. Just like my two examples above never made it out of the indecent report to anyone like you to see just how many times pilots save the day by just doing the little things like turning off the automation.

OldWeasel

Yes automation has reduced workload and increased safety. I won’t argue that. But total reliance on automation technology? Meh.

Fifty years ago there was so much confidence in technology, guns were pulled from fighters. Idealists imagined a Utopia. A reality check revealed the thinking was flawed as was the technology. Years later with significant advances, 5th gens carry guns.

Now we want to pull pilots. I’m pretty sure history will repeat itself.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

HIFLYR

No but they break or malfunction all the time!!

atpcliff

Design and logic is what makes the machine work. If the machine makes an error because the design is wrong, then the machine fails. If the machine makes an error because the logic is wrong, then the machine fails.


The EICAS said our fuel pumps were working. The EICAS Fuel Synopsis said the fuel pumps were working. The fail indicator light in the fuel pump switches said they were working. The switches were in the correct position for the fuel pumps to work. The fuel pumps were not working.

Dual FMC failure, with the autopilot shutting off, and loss of LNAV/VNAV...twice in 30 minutes.

The Autoland leveled the plane off at 50 feet...

etc., etc. Machines can get a LOT better in reliability, but if they fail, a human can take over a make it work. If the human screws up, the machine can alert the pilot, or take over and make it safe...

A human in a plane with automation, are a lot safer right now, than just a machine flying the plane...

Mesabah

Automation just means extended duty, not actually eliminating the pilots. This is what people in this thread don't seem to get. There will always be two humans flying the plane, but in an AI environment, it won't be a job worth having anymore. The unions are really the only protection we have, but I fear overseas operators will push pilots to the breaking point.