Lagoon

1. On average, in the US, how much can a new Level D simulator instructor for, say, Airbus or Boeing expect to earn?

2. What kind of training does such an instructor need to undergo?

3. I'm looking for a position where I can support a family, work as close as possible to 9-5 and be home almost every night. Is that realistic in this field?

Thanks.

rickair7777

It will pay a living wage but nowhere near as much as a major airline.

You can be home every "night", but sims cost millions so they run them almost around the clock, typically taking a MX break from 0200-0500 or something like that. I imagine if it's seniority based you could eventually bid 9-5 work.

Sims are hiring right now, if you have an ATP and any kind of jet experience, I'm sure they will train you. Type + instructor standardization.

AirBear

I've lost my medical and have an app in with American for Sim Instructor in CLT. At American all you do is sim instruct, no ground school. You work 17-20 days per month (biddable). 2 hour prebrief, 4 hour Sim, 15-30 min debrief = 6.5 hour day.

As for training, you get trained and typed, or at least have to pass the type ride if you don't hold a medical. Then of course you have to learn to operate the Sim and learn the training syllabus.

1st year pay is around $62K, 2nd year low to mid 70's, 3rd year low to mid 80's. After 10 years it's easy to make over $150K. You can bid monthly for how many days you want to work. The numbers above are for a 17 day month since that's what I'd bid for. I'd take part time work if they had it. They also have reserve duty so some days you can sit at home and get paid. I'll see if I can dig out the link for the TWU contract that covers the Sim Instructors.

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/b9d21...9e195eacb7.pdf

Lagoon

Thanks for all the information. The booklet is very helpful. Thanks for the insight.

One thing I’m confused about is how to become qualified to apply for a job.

I haven’t reached the ATP point or, MEL, for that matter. I’m Instrument rated at the moment, in an actual C172.

So what should my next step be?

rickair7777

Get 1500 hours and then fly a jet for a regional for a year. You may or may not need to upgrade, but I'm sure worst case you'd be marketable with some TPIC. I don't think the Sim operators are hiring ASEL pilots to teach jets.

You'll probably need CFI experience too. But you can do that on your way to 1500 hours.

PerfInit

Check 14 CFR 142.47 for the minimum requirements to be a US (FAA) simulator instructor at a Part 142 Center (Like FlightSafety). Please note that company hiring minimums may be more stringent. If you have EASA experience, that would be a huge plus.

Lagoon

Thanks

I was hoping this would be a lower cost, money saving path, to get into a career in the aviation field seeing as simulator training usually costs a fraction of flight training, but it looks like a sim instructor would have to follow the same training path as an ATP.
Unless I'm mistaken.

So I won't really be saving much, monetarily.

JohnBurke

The purpose of a simulator is to replicate a particular aircraft; the instructor teaching in that simulator should be not only an experienced pilot in that type of aircraft, but experienced in general. Think about it; should a corporate or airline pilot entering a $50,000 type rating program be instructed by a kid with two hundred hours under his belt, or an experienced aviator?

There isn't a short-cut. You're going to need the hours, the training, and the experience, just like every one of us had to get.

It's always the same thing: the poster thinks he's special, that he shouldn't have to walk before he runs, crawl before he walks. He shouldn't have to flight instruct. That's for someone else. Same questions; how can I do this without spending money, and how can I skip to the front of the line without having to endure the long hours, the low paying jobs, the less desirable work, that everyone else had to do?

In short, it's always the same thing...how do I get out of paying my dues?

Simulator training doesn't cost a fraction of the training. Look into getting a GV type rating, see what it costs. All done in the simulator, like most type ratings today. It's less expensive than doing it in a Gulfstream V, but a lot more expensive than getting your private (or commercial) in an actual aircraft. You can't do your private or commercial in a simulator.

My last type rating took two months to complete, beginning to end. In addition to the cost of the simulator, there was systems training, a hotel for those two months, and airfare going to and from, plus meals, a rental car to get around, and so forth. I didn't pay for it, but the total cost was probably about sixty thousand. Each of the instructors was in their sixties, one in his seventies, and all had at least fifteen to twenty years of experience in that specific type aircraft. Several had developed training programs for the aircraft, and one of them helped design it.


The lowest time person I saw go through the sim had several thousand hours, the most experienced was in the neighborhood of thirty thousand. I also saw people wash out who couldn't keep up with the program. It was not a time-building proposition for new pilots, nor was the simulator, the program, or the curriculum conducive to inexperience. Given enough time, I'm sure anyone could wade through it, but the simulator was running about 22 hours a day, every session back to back, with about two hours for maintenance each day . Multiple classrooms were full doing briefings, debriefings, etc. The training progressed at a reasonable, but unrelenting pace such that a new pilot would have been out of his or her depth. The phrase most often heard from such programs is "drinking from a fire hose." Not really the place to skip critical experience early in your career.

Simulators run several hundred to several thousand dollars an hour, and in many cases you'll need to meet certain benchmarks to rent or get any time in the simulator, at all.

The hours put in during sim sessions vary, but if you consider a two hour pre-brief, a four hour sim session, and one or two hours following, it's a full day. It could take place any time during the day or night, and because many simulators run around the clock, that 9-5 job culd be something quite different than you imagine. Many of those instructing in the simulators are retired, while others are check airmen who rotate through the sim to provide training.

If you're talking about small desk time flight training devices, any flight or ground instructor can teach in them, the certification and experience really dictated by the employer and the type of student. In order to get there, however, you're going to need to have the experience and understanding necessary to teach others, and if you're hoping to use a simulator for "time building," bear in mind that simulators are not aircraft and simulator time is not flight time.

Lagoon

I think you misunderstood my comment.

I’m not trying to jump to the front of the line — whatever that means — or avoid paying my dues as you put it or take a shortcut.

My point was, since sim instructors teach on a sim, why can’t the instructor learn on sim.

It has nothing to do with 200 hours or 30 or 700 hours.

I’m certainly smart enough to know that someone with less than 1500 hours of flight time — at the very least — is in no position to instruct someone with an ATP.

I was hoping there was a program where a prospective sim instructor could train on a sim to get his or her commercial and MEL and CFI and ATP certificates and then be qualified to become a sim instructor only. This is due to my understanding that sim time costs a fraction of flight time.

Do you see what I’m getting at?

JohnBurke

No, I understood you perfectly, and your follow-up commentary has reaffirmed that.

You really didn't read anything written, did you?

If you did, you've clearly not comprehended it.

Oh yes, I do see what you're "getting at."

Did you read about the cost and time to do a simple type rating?

What do you suppose the cost would be to do a commercial in the airplane?

You're talking about doing your commercial pilot certificate in a Level D simulator? Your initial multi-engine training? Where do you plan to get your instrument rating? Are you hoping to get your instrument rating in a Cessna 172, then do your commercial, multi- and your CFI/CFII/MEI in a 737 simulator, and in some alternate, unparallel universe have it cost less than hammering it out at your local FBO?

Do you have any notion of the cost of using a level D simulator or entering a program for a type rating?

Level D simulators are built to replicate specific aircraft types; for type specific training. They are considerably more expensive per hour than anything you'll rent at the local FBO. Because they replicate specific aircraft, you'll need to have a thorough understanding of that specific aircraft, which means a type rating.

Type ratings are conducted to ATP standards. In fact, the test standards for a type rating and for the ATP are the same.

There are pre-requisites for obtaining a type rating in a level D simulator. Do you know what they are?

While you may certainly make use of certain synthetic trainers, flight training devices, and the like, while seeking your primary training, you'd need considerable funding to attempt to do it in a type-specific airbus or boeing level D simulator. You'll also need a training partner, as with very few exceptions, level D simulators apply to crew aircraft.

Even airlines that do ab initio training (training of candidates with zero flight experience) do not do the training in level D simulators. There is relevance or type training in level D simulators, but elementary flight training is not done due to the cost involved.

Some operators will do procedures in the simulator with the motion off, as there's often a reduced cost for non-motion operations, before going to full motion sessions, but even those non-motion sim sessions are prohibitively expensive, and generally not available to someone working on their initial flight training.

As a fledgling aviator, rather than attempting to be distracted by thrust reversers and autoflight functions and the nuances of an FMS, you need to be worrying about more basic functions of aircraft control, instrument cross-check and interpretation, and so forth. Expensive, complicated simulators are places for refining skills specific to a particular aircraft type, not for teaching someone how to fly. It's expected that they're capable and competent when they show up to learn.