Ban the Box?
07-21-2019, 11:29 PM
#1
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Ban the Box?
Hey there fellas I've got a quick question for those that have been through the MAJOR/Cargo airline hiring process recently. When exactly in the process do they ask about arrests now? I have a couple of arrests from years ago that were ultimately dismissed and was not looking forward to how that would impact my career prospects. Its now time to start filling out Major apps and I saw that question about convictions on a few(airlineapps.com for United/Delta and fedex/southwest sites) but I have yet to see anything asking specifically about arrests. Is this just handled as a direct question in the interview now or has the focus shifted onto convictions primarily? I did a little googling on the subject and it sounds like this may be a byproduct of the "ban the box" movement. Any input would be appreciated.
07-22-2019, 07:45 AM
#2
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Arrests on Applications
Hey there fellas I've got a quick question for those that have been through the MAJOR/Cargo airline hiring process recently. When exactly in the process do they ask about arrests now? I have a couple of arrests from years ago that were ultimately dismissed and was not looking forward to how that would impact my career prospects. Its now time to start filling out Major apps and I saw that question about convictions on a few(airlineapps.com for United/Delta and fedex/southwest sites) but I have yet to see anything asking specifically about arrests. Is this just handled as a direct question in the interview now or has the focus shifted onto convictions primarily? I did a little googling on the subject and it sounds like this may be a byproduct of the "ban the box" movement. Any input would be appreciated.
07-22-2019, 07:57 AM
#3
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
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Posts: 39,275
Sort of. There's no one answer, different airlines have different philosophies and more importantly are headquartered in different states... which have different labor laws.
The trend has been to ask less about arrests and stick to convictions (within the limits of state law).
But federal jurisdiction prevails, so they will ALWAYS be able to ask about SIDA disqualifying convictions... obviously no point at all in hiring someone who the TSA will not clear for SIDA. But SIDA is convictions not arrests. So the absolute "hard deck" on criminal history is the SIDA list, within the specified time period.
Now with that said, if state law allows they might very well ask about arrests at the interview. In that case you will want to:
1) Have an explanation (not an excuse). Short, succinct, take FULL responsibility, tell them what you learned, how you've changed and then SHUT UP. Even if it really was the cop's fault not yours, DO NOT go there. If you try to tell them anything different, that will just confirm their default suspicion: that you are in fact the manipulative sociopath that your record hints at. Basically you have to throw yourself at their mercy.
2) Expunge everything you can. I still wouldn't lie if asked. Airlines may still see it but an expunged record is less likely to become public in the event of a high profile accident. I know at least one guy who got a CJO but the condition was that he had to get a minor infraction from years ago expunged before they gave him a class date.
3) You could also research state laws for any airline which calls you. That at least will give you an idea what to expect (although it's possible they might push boundaries where pilots are concerned).
But they have another trick up their sleeve: The Uncomfortable Silence...
"So, is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your background?" Now a panel of 3-4 folks are just staring at you. You're going to be really tempted to tell them something they didn't ask for... Don't.
They didn't ASK if you had any arrests (maybe because state law says they can't can't). But there's certainly no reason they can't consider that if you tell them of your own volition.
The trend has been to ask less about arrests and stick to convictions (within the limits of state law).
But federal jurisdiction prevails, so they will ALWAYS be able to ask about SIDA disqualifying convictions... obviously no point at all in hiring someone who the TSA will not clear for SIDA. But SIDA is convictions not arrests. So the absolute "hard deck" on criminal history is the SIDA list, within the specified time period.
Now with that said, if state law allows they might very well ask about arrests at the interview. In that case you will want to:
1) Have an explanation (not an excuse). Short, succinct, take FULL responsibility, tell them what you learned, how you've changed and then SHUT UP. Even if it really was the cop's fault not yours, DO NOT go there. If you try to tell them anything different, that will just confirm their default suspicion: that you are in fact the manipulative sociopath that your record hints at. Basically you have to throw yourself at their mercy.
2) Expunge everything you can. I still wouldn't lie if asked. Airlines may still see it but an expunged record is less likely to become public in the event of a high profile accident. I know at least one guy who got a CJO but the condition was that he had to get a minor infraction from years ago expunged before they gave him a class date.
3) You could also research state laws for any airline which calls you. That at least will give you an idea what to expect (although it's possible they might push boundaries where pilots are concerned).
But they have another trick up their sleeve: The Uncomfortable Silence...
"So, is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your background?" Now a panel of 3-4 folks are just staring at you. You're going to be really tempted to tell them something they didn't ask for... Don't.
They didn't ASK if you had any arrests (maybe because state law says they can't can't). But there's certainly no reason they can't consider that if you tell them of your own volition.
07-22-2019, 04:49 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 38
Thanks a lot I appreciate the response. I so far have initially completed the applications for delta/United/southwest/fedex/ups. The Southwest, Fedex, and UPS applications didn’t even ask about convictions, which I was surprised about. Anyone able to chime in if the subject (arrests specifically) is broached during the interview now?
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Sort of. There's no one answer, different airlines have different philosophies and more importantly are headquartered in different states... which have different labor laws.
The trend has been to ask less about arrests and stick to convictions (within the limits of state law).
But federal jurisdiction prevails, so they will ALWAYS be able to ask about SIDA disqualifying convictions... obviously no point at all in hiring someone who the TSA will not clear for SIDA. But SIDA is convictions not arrests. So the absolute "hard deck" on criminal history is the SIDA list, within the specified time period.
Now with that said, if state law allows they might very well ask about arrests at the interview. In that case you will want to:
1) Have an explanation (not an excuse). Short, succinct, take FULL responsibility, tell them what you learned, how you've changed and then SHUT UP. Even if it really was the cop's fault not yours, DO NOT go there. If you try to tell them anything different, that will just confirm their default suspicion: that you are in fact the manipulative sociopath that your record hints at. Basically you have to throw yourself at their mercy.
2) Expunge everything you can. I still wouldn't lie if asked. Airlines may still see it but an expunged record is less likely to become public in the event of a high profile accident. I know at least one guy who got a CJO but the condition was that he had to get a minor infraction from years ago expunged before they gave him a class date.
3) You could also research state laws for any airline which calls you. That at least will give you an idea what to expect (although it's possible they might push boundaries where pilots are concerned).
But they have another trick up their sleeve: The Uncomfortable Silence...
"So, is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your background?" Now a panel of 3-4 folks are just staring at you. You're going to be really tempted to tell them something they didn't ask for... Don't.
They didn't ASK if you had any arrests (maybe because state law says they can't can't). But there's certainly no reason they can't consider that if you tell them of your own volition.
The trend has been to ask less about arrests and stick to convictions (within the limits of state law).
But federal jurisdiction prevails, so they will ALWAYS be able to ask about SIDA disqualifying convictions... obviously no point at all in hiring someone who the TSA will not clear for SIDA. But SIDA is convictions not arrests. So the absolute "hard deck" on criminal history is the SIDA list, within the specified time period.
Now with that said, if state law allows they might very well ask about arrests at the interview. In that case you will want to:
1) Have an explanation (not an excuse). Short, succinct, take FULL responsibility, tell them what you learned, how you've changed and then SHUT UP. Even if it really was the cop's fault not yours, DO NOT go there. If you try to tell them anything different, that will just confirm their default suspicion: that you are in fact the manipulative sociopath that your record hints at. Basically you have to throw yourself at their mercy.
2) Expunge everything you can. I still wouldn't lie if asked. Airlines may still see it but an expunged record is less likely to become public in the event of a high profile accident. I know at least one guy who got a CJO but the condition was that he had to get a minor infraction from years ago expunged before they gave him a class date.
3) You could also research state laws for any airline which calls you. That at least will give you an idea what to expect (although it's possible they might push boundaries where pilots are concerned).
But they have another trick up their sleeve: The Uncomfortable Silence...
"So, is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your background?" Now a panel of 3-4 folks are just staring at you. You're going to be really tempted to tell them something they didn't ask for... Don't.
They didn't ASK if you had any arrests (maybe because state law says they can't can't). But there's certainly no reason they can't consider that if you tell them of your own volition.
07-23-2019, 03:15 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: baller, shot caller
Posts: 961
Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer
VERY VERY dangerous territory to go there!! I wouldn't!
To the OP, doing your homework will give you a general idea but with a multi million dollar career on the line it would be best to invest in an attorney experienced in employment matters (even better if in aviation employment) in the state wherever your dream job is located.
07-23-2019, 08:36 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by SSlow
I would totally go there if it were allowed within the confines of the law. But that is something that needs to be discussed with YOUR attorney who is familiar with YOUR situation.
To the OP, doing your homework will give you a general idea but with a multi million dollar career on the line it would be best to invest in an attorney experienced in employment matters (even better if in aviation employment) in the state wherever your dream job is located.
To the OP, doing your homework will give you a general idea but with a multi million dollar career on the line it would be best to invest in an attorney experienced in employment matters (even better if in aviation employment) in the state wherever your dream job is located.
07-27-2019, 06:58 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
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Posts: 316
This is good advice.. I failed to put something on my app because I wasn't convicted and it still came back to airline somehow. When they called me in, I kindly showed them where it said pre trial diversion and they apologized for misunderstanding and I went on my merry way. Be very careful and read question on app carefully. If it asks for convictions, list only that.
QUOTE=pipewrench;2860485]Don't say anything unless you were convicted.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=pipewrench;2860485]Don't say anything unless you were convicted.[/QUOTE]
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