Leaving policing to get into airlines
11-14-2023, 07:08 PM
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by razorseal
Might use little extra cash to try to get to 1000, which will allow me to hopefully fly hawker jets a friend can set me up with.
11-24-2023, 03:51 PM
#12
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2023
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by razorseal
Well, this is the reverse I guess... Want to see and know what people think.
Got my PPL/IFR in 2007-8. Was working on CMEL/CSEL 09 when I decided at the end (my dumbass should have finished. I was 5 lessons away in my 141) to quit and join the army...
Joined the National Guard in 2009 and was gone un bootcamp, then police academy. I stopped flying between 09 and 2012.
I got hired with a police department and had given up on the dream, but I had a friend CFI take me up and get me current. I put about another 100 hours into flying and got to 350TT by 2014. I didn't renew and haven't flown since.
fast forward from being at the PD from 12' to '23. I've gone up the ranks and made it to sergeant. Almost made it to lieutenant, but work politics and drama, I believe it is going to another sergeant.
Working in this job has been rewarding. I'm a very hard worker and for the most part it has been recognized. I've gotten many awards, got many admin roles because I'm good with back end of things and day to day operations of the agency.
But I've kinda had it. the high school drama, the politics, people trying to throw you under the bus so they can get the positions and get ahead of you... It sucks.
Let's not mention I can get shot, do a mistake and be civilly liable, constant people up in my face with their cameras and many other things.
I make little over a 100. Workig up the ranks will get me maybe another 10k and chiefs top out around 150k here. I don't see myself getting there
Have a buddy who had a similar path as me, but he stuck through with piedmont in around 2011. He was getting horrible pay and quit. joined a police force. around 2014, he had enough of it too and went back into flying. got with planesense, then I think skywest or something similar and now he's at frontier loving it. let's not mention our other buddy who has been with Jet blue for 7 years, making way more than what I'll ever make
He has been begging me to get back into aviation knowing what it's like being a cop. I told him it's not possible for me because I am lacking the hours and I honestly thought the market was like what it was when I was going through in 2010 times...
Well I guess it has changed alot.
I'm highly considering putting the badge away, selling few assets, finishing up my commercial stuff and getting into a low paying 135 to build hours and go regional/major while teaching part time at the academy making about 45-50 an hour
Wife and I agreed this might work for us and she's ready to rock the boat with me as our kids hang on lol.
Has anyone done a similar journey like me?
Got my PPL/IFR in 2007-8. Was working on CMEL/CSEL 09 when I decided at the end (my dumbass should have finished. I was 5 lessons away in my 141) to quit and join the army...
Joined the National Guard in 2009 and was gone un bootcamp, then police academy. I stopped flying between 09 and 2012.
I got hired with a police department and had given up on the dream, but I had a friend CFI take me up and get me current. I put about another 100 hours into flying and got to 350TT by 2014. I didn't renew and haven't flown since.
fast forward from being at the PD from 12' to '23. I've gone up the ranks and made it to sergeant. Almost made it to lieutenant, but work politics and drama, I believe it is going to another sergeant.
Working in this job has been rewarding. I'm a very hard worker and for the most part it has been recognized. I've gotten many awards, got many admin roles because I'm good with back end of things and day to day operations of the agency.
But I've kinda had it. the high school drama, the politics, people trying to throw you under the bus so they can get the positions and get ahead of you... It sucks.
Let's not mention I can get shot, do a mistake and be civilly liable, constant people up in my face with their cameras and many other things.
I make little over a 100. Workig up the ranks will get me maybe another 10k and chiefs top out around 150k here. I don't see myself getting there
Have a buddy who had a similar path as me, but he stuck through with piedmont in around 2011. He was getting horrible pay and quit. joined a police force. around 2014, he had enough of it too and went back into flying. got with planesense, then I think skywest or something similar and now he's at frontier loving it. let's not mention our other buddy who has been with Jet blue for 7 years, making way more than what I'll ever make
He has been begging me to get back into aviation knowing what it's like being a cop. I told him it's not possible for me because I am lacking the hours and I honestly thought the market was like what it was when I was going through in 2010 times...
Well I guess it has changed alot.
I'm highly considering putting the badge away, selling few assets, finishing up my commercial stuff and getting into a low paying 135 to build hours and go regional/major while teaching part time at the academy making about 45-50 an hour
Wife and I agreed this might work for us and she's ready to rock the boat with me as our kids hang on lol.
Has anyone done a similar journey like me?
Mainly, and basically; when you're flying an airplane are you just plain happy? Can you see yourself looking down (from the bigger front window) at the Grand Canyon, Mt Ranier, Pikes Peak, or any domestic or international wonder of the world and think, "I can't believe I get to see this, again!" OR fly a right base over the Space Needle landing SEA OR long straight in final to LAX with Big Bear passing by your window! Do these thought jazz you up? Recognizing it's still a job many days, but one you show up to because there's nothing else you want to do. If this paragraph hits a possible home, you're decision is made. And it ain't just about the money....
11-25-2023, 09:37 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 148
Originally Posted by Havethetshirt
I've been at my company a long time and have had several X-law enforcement coworkers. Not a one said they regretted the decision to switch to the flying career. And I'm not at a 'classified' major airline either.
Mainly, and basically; when you're flying an airplane are you just plain happy? Can you see yourself looking down (from the bigger front window) at the Grand Canyon, Mt Ranier, Pikes Peak, or any domestic or international wonder of the world and think, "I can't believe I get to see this, again!" OR fly a right base over the Space Needle landing SEA OR long straight in final to LAX with Big Bear passing by your window! Do these thought jazz you up? Recognizing it's still a job many days, but one you show up to because there's nothing else you want to do. If this paragraph hits a possible home, you're decision is made. And it ain't just about the money....
Mainly, and basically; when you're flying an airplane are you just plain happy? Can you see yourself looking down (from the bigger front window) at the Grand Canyon, Mt Ranier, Pikes Peak, or any domestic or international wonder of the world and think, "I can't believe I get to see this, again!" OR fly a right base over the Space Needle landing SEA OR long straight in final to LAX with Big Bear passing by your window! Do these thought jazz you up? Recognizing it's still a job many days, but one you show up to because there's nothing else you want to do. If this paragraph hits a possible home, you're decision is made. And it ain't just about the money....
I'm trying to get those hours in now and get somewhere.
I started looking at jobs to get me to ATP and it's looking kinda dire. I was looking at some corporate stuff but I don't think it's going to pan out. I will have to start at a very low paying job unfortunetly.
again, I don't want to CFI.
11-25-2023, 10:57 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,213
Originally Posted by razorseal
That's great to hear.
I'm trying to get those hours in now and get somewhere.
I started looking at jobs to get me to ATP and it's looking kinda dire. I was looking at some corporate stuff but I don't think it's going to pan out. I will have to start at a very low paying job unfortunetly.
again, I don't want to CFI.
I'm trying to get those hours in now and get somewhere.
I started looking at jobs to get me to ATP and it's looking kinda dire. I was looking at some corporate stuff but I don't think it's going to pan out. I will have to start at a very low paying job unfortunetly.
again, I don't want to CFI.
Or get a pipeline patrol job. Buddy's son is doing it. Had some weather last week "so he didn't fly as much. Only got 23 hrs last week." That 'bad week' was a 100/hr a month pace. He's been averaging 120+ hrs a month once he got hired at 500 hrs TT. So going from 500 hrs to 1450 (when the regionals will hire you) can be done as quickly as 8 months. You're at 350+ hrs right now. Get your commercial ASAP while still working as a LEO. Get your CFI and you're at least at 400 hrs TT. That's when you quit the LEO job and pursue ANY flying job that flies a LOT. It's not about making money, it's about improving you resume to the next job, and the next job, and then probably to your final job. Save your money that you think can get you to 750 hrs. That's wasted money. You can't buy enough time compared to what you can get someone to PAY you to fly at the "low paying jobs" you don't want. Buddy's son is blockin 14-15 hrs over 2 days on good days. Up to 30 hrs a week. That's $4500 bucks a month out of your pocket vs getting paid
Yes, low time pilots with low experience typically get the low paying jobs. Getting a better paying job is often fools gold...you'll get more money, but not huge money, but few flying hours so you can't advance to the majors. What's the cost you? If it takes you another year to get to a major airline you'll lose the most senior year of your career. So 5 years of corporate paying $80, 90, 100, 120, 140,000 over 5 years is much better than the 40, 60 (1/2 CFI, 1/2 regional), 90, 110 CFI/regional path. The hypothetical corporate path earns $530K over 5 years vs the CFI/regional that gets you to a major a year sooner but you $200K less over 4 years. But....at the end of your career the CFI/regional guy, besides being a year more senior for 30 years...every month, every holiday, every upgrade, every vacation, will have one more year in the left seat. Right now that's $470K....or a net gain of $240K vs the corporate path.
It's a race to get to 1500 hrs, get to a regional, and get to your 'destination' major airline. Every delay costs you money.
Just flew with a guy that made decisions that will delay his tranistion to a regional airline by 6 months. Everything else being equal it might have cost him 6 months at his major airline career. That's roughly a lost opportunity cost of $175,000? Plus 6 months at a major is up to 1,000 seniority numbers right now. Ask anyone one who's been at a major airline for 20-30 years how much they'd pay to be 1,000 numbers more senior their entire career. The offer would be tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars.
11-25-2023, 12:04 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 148
Originally Posted by Sliceback
"I don't want to CFI." Very few "want to CFI" but it's the #1 career stepping stone. Quick time and in a structured training environment. Teaching others will make YOU better.
Or get a pipeline patrol job. Buddy's son is doing it. Had some weather last week "so he didn't fly as much. Only got 23 hrs last week." That 'bad week' was a 100/hr a month pace. He's been averaging 120+ hrs a month once he got hired at 500 hrs TT. So going from 500 hrs to 1450 (when the regionals will hire you) can be done as quickly as 8 months. You're at 350+ hrs right now. Get your commercial ASAP while still working as a LEO. Get your CFI and you're at least at 400 hrs TT. That's when you quit the LEO job and pursue ANY flying job that flies a LOT. It's not about making money, it's about improving you resume to the next job, and the next job, and then probably to your final job. Save your money that you think can get you to 750 hrs. That's wasted money. You can't buy enough time compared to what you can get someone to PAY you to fly at the "low paying jobs" you don't want. Buddy's son is blockin 14-15 hrs over 2 days on good days. Up to 30 hrs a week. That's $4500 bucks a month out of your pocket vs getting paid
Yes, low time pilots with low experience typically get the low paying jobs. Getting a better paying job is often fools gold...you'll get more money, but not huge money, but few flying hours so you can't advance to the majors. What's the cost you? If it takes you another year to get to a major airline you'll lose the most senior year of your career. So 5 years of corporate paying $80, 90, 100, 120, 140,000 over 5 years is much better than the 40, 60 (1/2 CFI, 1/2 regional), 90, 110 CFI/regional path. The hypothetical corporate path earns $530K over 5 years vs the CFI/regional that gets you to a major a year sooner but you $200K less over 4 years. But....at the end of your career the CFI/regional guy, besides being a year more senior for 30 years...every month, every holiday, every upgrade, every vacation, will have one more year in the left seat. Right now that's $470K....or a net gain of $240K vs the corporate path.
It's a race to get to 1500 hrs, get to a regional, and get to your 'destination' major airline. Every delay costs you money.
Just flew with a guy that made decisions that will delay his tranistion to a regional airline by 6 months. Everything else being equal it might have cost him 6 months at his major airline career. That's roughly a lost opportunity cost of $175,000? Plus 6 months at a major is up to 1,000 seniority numbers right now. Ask anyone one who's been at a major airline for 20-30 years how much they'd pay to be 1,000 numbers more senior their entire career. The offer would be tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Or get a pipeline patrol job. Buddy's son is doing it. Had some weather last week "so he didn't fly as much. Only got 23 hrs last week." That 'bad week' was a 100/hr a month pace. He's been averaging 120+ hrs a month once he got hired at 500 hrs TT. So going from 500 hrs to 1450 (when the regionals will hire you) can be done as quickly as 8 months. You're at 350+ hrs right now. Get your commercial ASAP while still working as a LEO. Get your CFI and you're at least at 400 hrs TT. That's when you quit the LEO job and pursue ANY flying job that flies a LOT. It's not about making money, it's about improving you resume to the next job, and the next job, and then probably to your final job. Save your money that you think can get you to 750 hrs. That's wasted money. You can't buy enough time compared to what you can get someone to PAY you to fly at the "low paying jobs" you don't want. Buddy's son is blockin 14-15 hrs over 2 days on good days. Up to 30 hrs a week. That's $4500 bucks a month out of your pocket vs getting paid
Yes, low time pilots with low experience typically get the low paying jobs. Getting a better paying job is often fools gold...you'll get more money, but not huge money, but few flying hours so you can't advance to the majors. What's the cost you? If it takes you another year to get to a major airline you'll lose the most senior year of your career. So 5 years of corporate paying $80, 90, 100, 120, 140,000 over 5 years is much better than the 40, 60 (1/2 CFI, 1/2 regional), 90, 110 CFI/regional path. The hypothetical corporate path earns $530K over 5 years vs the CFI/regional that gets you to a major a year sooner but you $200K less over 4 years. But....at the end of your career the CFI/regional guy, besides being a year more senior for 30 years...every month, every holiday, every upgrade, every vacation, will have one more year in the left seat. Right now that's $470K....or a net gain of $240K vs the corporate path.
It's a race to get to 1500 hrs, get to a regional, and get to your 'destination' major airline. Every delay costs you money.
Just flew with a guy that made decisions that will delay his tranistion to a regional airline by 6 months. Everything else being equal it might have cost him 6 months at his major airline career. That's roughly a lost opportunity cost of $175,000? Plus 6 months at a major is up to 1,000 seniority numbers right now. Ask anyone one who's been at a major airline for 20-30 years how much they'd pay to be 1,000 numbers more senior their entire career. The offer would be tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I appreciate your post. Let me get my commercial, and maybe I will indeed get CFI.... Would def be good to have. I won't dispute that.
I do need more planes to fly. The plane I'm currently flying is great, but when it's down for maintance (like now) I'm just sitting waiting to fly. I could have easily made 10 hours of flying today. Oh well.... lol
11-25-2023, 04:24 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by razorseal
I get it bud.
I do need more planes to fly. The plane I'm currently flying is great, but when it's down for maintance (like now) I'm just sitting waiting to fly. I could have easily made 10 hours of flying today. Oh well.... lol
I do need more planes to fly. The plane I'm currently flying is great, but when it's down for maintance (like now) I'm just sitting waiting to fly. I could have easily made 10 hours of flying today. Oh well.... lol
01-15-2024, 12:20 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 28
[size=33px]You are a cop in a low-paying state.[/size]
Columns
Name
Job title
Regular pay
Overtime pay
Other pay
Total pay
Benefits
Pension debt
Total pay &
benefits
Paulo Morgado
Police Officer 3
San Francisco, 2018$592,394.34$0.00$0.00$592,394.34$120,408.02Not provided$712,802.36Lance Mccolgan
Police Officer
Hermosa Beach, 2018$22,564.00$0.00$526,145.00$548,709.00$185,157.00$0 .00$733,866.00Malcolm E. Miller
Police Officer (Pers)
Oakland, 2019$126,532.00$257,325.90$154,989.48$538,847.38$101,8 89.09Not provided$640,736.47BALTAZAR, JOHNNY A
Police Officer III
Los Angeles, 2013$70,890.00$0.00$430,040.00$500,930.00$0.00Not provided$500,930.00Timothy S. Dolan
Police Officer (Pers)
Oakland, 2019$128,301.49$322,071.47$48,860.29$499,233.25$101,90 1.82Not provided$601,135.07Timothy S. Dolan
Police Officer (Pers)
Oakland, 2020$134,080.36$301,856.19$43,880.33$479,816.88$109,99 2.62Not provided$589,809.50Edgar A Gonzalez
Police Officer 3
San Francisco, 2022$142,860.26$296,174.25$14,981.04$454,015.55$46,174 .80Not provided$500,190.35Malcolm E. Miller
Police Officer (PERS)
Oakland, 2018$123,796.42$205,307.18$123,260.05$452,363.65$87,37 1.78Not provided$539,735.43Mauricio P Perez
Police Officer (Pers)
Oakland, 2022$139,328.47$218,783.04$80,281.22$438,392.73$132,80 0.28Not provided$571,193.01Huy T Nguyen
Police Officer (Pers)
Oakland, 2022$135,898.58$260,752.94$32,603.74$429,255.26$123,25 0.93Not provided$552,506.19Louis W Wong
Police Officer 3
San Francisco, 2022$142,860.25$265,988.29$9,770.11$418,618.65$45,573. 42Not provided$464,192.07Malcolm E. Miller
Police Officer (PERS)
Oakland, 2015$107,672.07$192,108.14$117,755.01$417,535.22$72,12 7.03Not provided$489,662.25Mauricio P Perez
Police Officer (Pers)
Oakland, 2021$138,642.39$223,102.44$54,015.29$415,760.12$121,34 8.83Not provided$537,108.95Malcolm E. Miller
Police Officer (PERS)
Oakland, 2017$113,157.85$183,178.62$119,259.01$415,595.48$78,78 8.93Not provided$494,384.41Bach Tran
Police Officer
San Jose, 2017$117,873.60$273,498.31$22,530.68$413,902.59$134,87 5.53Not provided$548,778.12Marcell Patterson
Police Officer (Pers)
Oakland, 2019$123,529.67$203,727.85$86,406.12$413,663.64$87,240 .22Not provided$500,903.86Francisco Romero
Police Officer (Pers)
Oakland, 2020$133,932.33$242,846.83$31,679.07$408,458.23$107,34 5.60Not provided$515,803.83Michael Magana
Police Officer
Mountain View, 2022$145,537.00$218,226.00$33,070.00$396,833.00$45,962 .00$54,352.61$497,147.61Jose Ceferino Barocio
Police Officer (Pers)
Oakland, 2020$130,349.57$226,536.94$36,775.39$393,661.90$97,270 .02Not provided$490,931.92Malcolm E. Miller
Police Officer (PERS)
Oakland, 2014$107,607.39$165,868.54$120,096.09$393,572.02$69,98 0.59Not provided$463,552.61
01-15-2024, 12:34 PM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 28
You can check Transparent California for more details and salaries. Sorry for the sloppy paste job above. Larger cities and cities with a good tax base are where the good paying jobs are. After a few years and a little bit of OT you can make over 200K. If you hustle like the guys on the list above you can get over 300k. Other benefits are good medical plans, 3/12 shifts, generous pension plan, disablility pension if you get hurt on the job, many different career paths (especially in larger agencies), civil service promotional opportunites, and outstanding camaraderie with co-workers. The risk of getting shot is overstated in the media, and the risk of getting sued is neglible if you follow policy. Departments have to legally represent you when you get sued (qualified immunity), and you have union representation. I did it for 28 years, and I highly recommend it as a career, but you have to want to be a cop...not just for the pay and benefits.
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