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Old 05-25-2025 | 08:24 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by InsightfulAv8r
Honestly, getting to the majors is not an absolute goal. I would be content if regionals was as far as I go. Of course time will tell that.
Regional "career" is risky, it often ends with your regional liquidating right about when you're at your peak career earnings and too old to practically start over somewhere else. I can think of four liquidated regionals in recent memory off the top of my head, about to be joined by number five.

So I would shoot for the majors (if you go the airline track). If you get stuck at the regionals, it will *probably* work out OK, but do yourself a favor and don't choose that now. If you get into a good position, good QOL, extra income from training dept, etc then you might have a reason to choose to sit tight. Also I'd say the large regionals are far more secure over the course of a career... if you're thinking of staying I'd keep that in mind
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Old 05-25-2025 | 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by InsightfulAv8r
What do i choose to do with my CJO. What if they come around 10 months in and say lets get started. What then?
Yes, it depends. On where things stand when the time comes.

As I've said be careful about choosing 91/135 employers... a training bust would likely result in a revoked CJO. I'm sure they will check when they give you a class date.
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Old 05-25-2025 | 08:36 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul
I know you’re not broken.
I know that and everyone reading your question knows that.
Future employers don’t know that, they’re just looking at a resume and wondering why you didn’t move. They are the ones thinking if you can pass a type rating.
One day you can ask my how I know.
Yes this did cross all of our minds. I was specifically assigned to fly with a new FO back at the regionals because management wanted a second opinion, post IOE, on the guy. He had been a 20-year ASEL CFI and after a divorce decided to run away and join the airlines. He struggled significantly but had a good attitude so I (barely) recommended they retain him. No idea what happened in the long run. Career stagnation or complacency can indicate potential difficulty succeeding with the next step. Either because the stagnation was caused by training struggles up to that point and fear of greater challenges, or complacency which could mean difficulty shifting gears back to student after so long.

I'm less concerned about the OP, given his penchant for learning new things and the martial arts background.
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Old 05-25-2025 | 09:52 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Yes this did cross all of our minds. I was specifically assigned to fly with a new FO back at the regionals because management wanted a second opinion, post IOE, on the guy. He had been a 20-year ASEL CFI and after a divorce decided to run away and join the airlines. He struggled significantly but had a good attitude so I (barely) recommended they retain him. No idea what happened in the long run. Career stagnation or complacency can indicate potential difficulty succeeding with the next step. Either because the stagnation was caused by training struggles up to that point and fear of greater challenges, or complacency which could mean difficulty shifting gears back to student after so long.

I'm less concerned about the OP, given his penchant for learning new things and the martial arts background.
Thank you for the vote of confidence. For all my years of teaching, I have constantly pushed boundaries. I attest that to my martial arts background as I have taught 3 1/2-year-olds all the way up to the grey beards. Beginners beyond black belts. I am an aggressive learner who hungers for more on a normal basis. At my Flight school I am the teachers teacher and people gravitate to me for more knowledge. Even from my mentors, I inspire them to try new things. I’m not your typical CFI. I have aspirations of becoming a check, airman one of these days as I do love to educate. I am certain when I start my training I will excel. When I went for my multi this past fall, I studied the airplane and multi engine concepts well before sitting in front of my instructor for the first time. I wanted to be prepared before they even started teaching. When I took my check ride. I was told I should’ve taken the MEI ride as I knew the information cold.

When I got my interview, I nailed every question. I was very well prepared.Now, it was my first and only interview since I was a “career changer “I had to go to the review board. A week later I received my CJO.. I have some close connections from captains inside the regional airline of my choice. They provided me with the 900 page operations and systems manual. along with the Honeywell manual and performance manuals I have been studying that material diligently so I will be prepared to know the material cold by the time class starts. So as you see, I am not waiting for it to come to me. Regardless of where I choose to go. I will immerse myself in the material to be at my best.
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Old 05-26-2025 | 06:53 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by InsightfulAv8r
Thank you for the vote of confidence. For all my years of teaching, I have constantly pushed boundaries. I attest that to my martial arts background as I have taught 3 1/2-year-olds all the way up to the grey beards. Beginners beyond black belts. I am an aggressive learner who hungers for more on a normal basis. At my Flight school I am the teachers teacher and people gravitate to me for more knowledge. Even from my mentors, I inspire them to try new things. I’m not your typical CFI. I have aspirations of becoming a check, airman one of these days as I do love to educate. I am certain when I start my training I will excel. When I went for my multi this past fall, I studied the airplane and multi engine concepts well before sitting in front of my instructor for the first time. I wanted to be prepared before they even started teaching. When I took my check ride. I was told I should’ve taken the MEI ride as I knew the information cold.

When I got my interview, I nailed every question. I was very well prepared.Now, it was my first and only interview since I was a “career changer “I had to go to the review board. A week later I received my CJO.. I have some close connections from captains inside the regional airline of my choice. They provided me with the 900 page operations and systems manual. along with the Honeywell manual and performance manuals I have been studying that material diligently so I will be prepared to know the material cold by the time class starts. So as you see, I am not waiting for it to come to me. Regardless of where I choose to go. I will immerse myself in the material to be at my best.
Calm down Captain America.
Reading text gives a whole lot different impression from spoken word.
We’re all good. Nobody introduces themselves with saying that they suck at what they do.
Its good to be ambitious but there is such a thing as trying too hard and it annoys people.

You need a plausible explanation why you ‘waited so long’ and why you decided to make the leap now.
Interview prep can be helpful.
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Old 05-26-2025 | 07:51 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul
Calm down Captain America.
Reading text gives a whole lot different impression from spoken word.
We’re all good. Nobody introduces themselves with saying that they suck at what they do.
Its good to be ambitious but there is such a thing as trying too hard and it annoys people.

You need a plausible explanation why you ‘waited so long’ and why you decided to make the leap now.
Interview prep can be helpful.
My apologies. I typically don’t spout off my accolades. I know it’s not a typical thing for people to go from instructing to airlines the way I have done. I just want this so bad. I’m just trying to make sure I’m going in the right direction. By no means am I trying to say I deserve anything. I am also not the best at what I do. I’m just trying to keep my head up and move forward. I appreciate everyone’s advice. Truly!
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Old 05-26-2025 | 09:39 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by InsightfulAv8r
I know it’s not a typical thing for people to go from instructing to airlines the way I have done.
Actually, it was, for many years. It was the most common path.
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Old 05-26-2025 | 11:15 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke
Actually, it was, for many years. It was the most common path.
Nah. CFI to airline wasn't the most common path. CFI and then ANOTHER job or two, and then to the airlines, was the common path. Few were getting the 500-1000 hrs multi time the airlines often required. So it was often CFI, Part 135 air taxi, cancelled checks, fly by night cargo operator, sit right seat 'don't touch anything' charter or Part 91 operation. Even in the 1980's the most common civilian path was via regionals airlines with night freight or checks in a light MEL another common feeder path. I don't recall, but it might have happened, for someone in the last 39.5 years to say "I got here from a CFI job." Back in the 1960's, when the Vietnam War pilot shortage hit, the majors were hiring some pure civilian CFI's. One of those was a 727 FE who got his 727 FO award about 5-6 years later. His peers were kinda of chuckling, as much as a 14 yr old kid could understand - "he's in for a surprise when he gets in the sim." Can you imagine being a 1000 hr CFI and 5-6 years later, with little of no flying in the meantime, getting a 727 FO award? LOL.
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Old 05-26-2025 | 11:32 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by InsightfulAv8r
My apologies. I typically don’t spout off my accolades. I know it’s not a typical thing for people to go from instructing to airlines the way I have done. I just want this so bad. I’m just trying to make sure I’m going in the right direction. By no means am I trying to say I deserve anything. I am also not the best at what I do. I’m just trying to keep my head up and move forward. I appreciate everyone’s advice. Truly!
I've looked at several studies on good feeder/predictors of future success in aviation. None of them mentioned martial arts instructor. That's a great skill but so is carpenter, kitchen designer, drywaller, Amish framer, etc. Flying takes effort, training, and skill, but the studies don't mention hobbies or second jobs that are indicators of future success.

The difference is significant going from a SEL to a MEL and even more so a jet. Most get it as it's not rocket science but others demonstrate that they've reached their ceiling. Sometimes that occurs in training.

If you have access to a guy currently flying there have him give you some GS introductions to the aircraft, jet ops, systems, FMC's, automation, callouts, checklist use, high altitude performance, SID's and STARS and high speeds and high climb and sink rates, etc. Here's something that gets lost - energy management in congested areas with descents and climbs. The United airlines 757 incident descending into SFO is a perfect example of this - 2 injured because they were descending at a high rate and created their own, self generated, TCAS event. That's just one example of situation awareness that exists in many different areas that you have to learn. It's a great skill to learn but it's a learning process. No one can predict the outcome and it's wildly, and over the top, to believe "I've done this well so I'll do that well" when it's a significantly different arena. Show up, work hard, get assistance, listen, take a deep breath at times because there's often obstacles to overcome, are all part of the process.

Going forward? You need stepping stone career advancements. PC-12 time, MEL time, larger aircraft, faster, heavier, etc, etc. We've all done that in the past. No one started as a Part 121 Captain - we had training, guidance, mentorship, and tutelage to get better.

Don't want for the "we might hire you in 6, 12, 18 months." A former coworker had an offer like that. I told him "you can't wait for a job that might or might not happen in 6 months. You need a job NOW to keep flying. New jet, new type rating, get better at that job, is the path towards resume improvement. For him it involved moving his young family from across the street from his in-laws to a city hours away. It's not about today, this week, or next month, it's about setting yourself for long term success. That gets harder and harde as we age and our family requirements increase.

Good luck.
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Old 05-26-2025 | 12:08 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Sliceback
Nah. CFI to airline wasn't the most common path. CFI and then ANOTHER job or two, and then to the airlines, was the common path. Few were getting the 500-1000 hrs multi time the airlines often required. So it was often CFI, Part 135 air taxi, cancelled checks, fly by night cargo operator, sit right seat 'don't touch anything' charter or Part 91 operation. Even in the 1980's the most common civilian path was via regionals airlines with night freight or checks in a light MEL another common feeder path. I don't recall, but it might have happened, for someone in the last 39.5 years to say "I got here from a CFI job." Back in the 1960's, when the Vietnam War pilot shortage hit, the majors were hiring some pure civilian CFI's. One of those was a 727 FE who got his 727 FO award about 5-6 years later. His peers were kinda of chuckling, as much as a 14 yr old kid could understand - "he's in for a surprise when he gets in the sim." Can you imagine being a 1000 hr CFI and 5-6 years later, with little of no flying in the meantime, getting a 727 FO award? LOL.
That was generally the case up until the late 1990's ish.

That coincided with the rise of the RJ's, so maybe they just had such a demand that they lowered their standards to 100 ME and then 50, 25, and so on.

I wouldn't expect regionals to start requiring a lot of ME, although as hiring ebbs and flows you might well see candidates with ME and/or turbine time edging out ASEL CFI's on a competitive basis (vice hard minimums).
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