Failed checkride traceable?
 

I recently had an interview and did disclose that I had failed my initial multi com inst. but felt I did a good job of explaining it. Anyway my question is just out of curiosity is there any other way (other than looking a your logbook) that they can find out if you failed a 91 ride?

Well if you dig deep enough there would in theory a paper trail of 8710's
That would be an indication of a failed ride in the 91 world. I have no idea if the pria paper work or anything else can see that.
Just speculation on my part

Reeves

Why take the chance? Honesty works the way it is supposed to.

"SuperPilot" failed a checkride???

I said I disclosed it... I was just asking.

I obviously know it works I did it.

jesse from phoenix?

If you were pink slipped it would probably be in your pilot record with the FAA wouldn't it?

Dude, if you're wondering (I'm sure you're not though) if you screwed up by telling them, then no, you didn't. You did the right thing. I would guess that there would be a record of it that they could get their hands on, but that's only a guess.

Yup, they WILL. When you fill all the forms, check YES on all of them, and the fine folks in OKC will forward them to you. If you are bored, or curious, you can request your records from them also (If you lose a logbook like this bonehead did, your 8710 will prove flight time)

Ok I figure OKC would keep your last 8710 what if it was two rides ago... do they keep the old one?

Phoenix? No I'm from california... if you think you know me. Send me a PM.

It won't show anywhere. An airline won't know unless you tell them, they look at the logbook or directly request that info from the FAA, and they usually don't.

But remember, an airline will fire you in a New York minute if they ever find out you lied. Risky way of doing business. The airlines constantly pull people out of class for dishonesty, I've seen it twice.

They usually audit your logbook, and it's not too hard to read between the lines and spot two checkrides.

Your FAA pilot record has a copy of everything, including the pink slips and multiple 8710s. A one-sentence explaination of the failed ride is good, and be able to go into detail if needed.

i live about 60 miles away from the OKC faa office....more than once i have wanted to go down there and offer all those guys a paid vacation because they work amazingly hard for having a government job...its amazing the stuff they can dig up about you and none of us realize it......tell the truth....they WILL find out and let ur employer know u lied!!!!

Dude...don't worry about a silly check-ride before you even start your 121 career - it's like worrying what grade you got in 8th grade algebra after you've graduated College. Even "super" Pilots bust a checkride occasionally, and really, the only person it matters to is you. Nobody cares - I promise...! It's all good, just be sure to laugh about it with the interviewers ;)

It WILL show if they request a copy of your records. When you you (or an employer) requests your records, EVERYTHING you have ever filled out for the FAA gets mailed to you. All of you medical apps, 8710's, all of your written test results, copies of your temporary certs issued after a check ride, AND a copy of a pink slip if applicable.

...once you fill out the PRIA paperwork, if you got hired, it will show. Good luck...

This has been discussed here many times. The records the airline receives from OKC do not include 8710s. The only way they can tell is if you logged it. That being said, honesty is the best policy. 8410s however, from previous employers will be included. At least for the past 5 years.

I don't have anything to worry about as I DID disclose it... It's just a what if question. So many people are sure it's one way or the other... Kinda strange that everyone seems to "know for sure" one way or the other.

Forget paper trails, one close look at your logbook will (should) reveal the failure.

A better question is what about if you did your training part 141. Then you can never fail a checkride, since the 8710 is never mailed to the FAA. So what if you don't pass one of those on your intial first shot? Is that one you need to disclose? Or is that not considered a failure? Have been asked in both interviews I have been to, have I failed a check ride OR stage check.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that you are confusing 141 training with the in-house examiners that are at some of these schools. Most 141 programs still send you off for an FAA checkride.

You are confusing stage checks with check rides. Stage checks dont go on your record because you dont fill out any 8710 forms for those. Any ride you fail for a pilot certificate will be on you FAA record.

If this is related to UND that include the following course:

102
325
414
415
416

Anything between that is considered stage check including:
112
101
221
222
323
325 lesson 99 or whatever it is now

The only thing that shows on a PRIA report is what certificates, ratings, and medical you currently hold. Im sure if the company want a detail report they could always get it according to the PRIA specifications.

Always disclose failures. You can get hired if you failed a checkride or two. You wont get hired if you try to hide it.

Believe it or not, most airline interviewers know the difference between part 61 training and part 141 training. I was also asked very specifically in every airline interview I've been through if I had ever failed a STAGE CHECK OR CHECKRIDE. In each case I told them about the stage check AND the checkride that I had failed (majority of my training was 141). For what its worth, all but one place I interviewed offered me a job.

Nancy Grace would be able to find you if you failed a checkride, so it is probably..............traceable.

I've never been asked about 141 stage or end-of-course checks. Those would be harder to identify because the FAA has no paperwork, your logbook may not clearly reflect what it was, and airlines don't normally get access to 141 training records as part of PRIA.

However...your logbook entries might raise suspicions. Also if you subsequently worked as a CFI at a 141 school where you trained a PRIA request might well return ALL of your 141 training records. The law is not specific about that but if a flight school manager reads the PRIA form he might get the idea that he is supposed to return all training records which he has...I worked at a flight school which did exactly that, and most of their instructors had trained there as students.

Safe answer: Fess up. Avoids problems down the road, and will not likely be a hiring issue unless you have multiple failures (3+).

I would think that if it is the latest entry in your logbook, it may have some weight to a potential employer. But if it is ancient history, many pages and hours ago in your logbook, or you have held a commercial job since then, and demonstrated your ability by holding a job with another carrier, no one really cares.

I failed my first try at a ppl! I check the box, and dont think much of it. Look at it this way: You can find a way to tell that story in an educational, or enlightening way, and make it work FOR you at an interview. It gives you an opportunity to stop answering questions, and start showing your personality and thought process to your potential employers.

I too wondered what information was included in PRIA, so I checked the box, and requested a copy recently. I'll let you know EXACTLY what I receive in a few weeks. We wont have to speculate. If I forget, PM me.

Yup, if you got a pink slip, it will be on your PRIA records report from our favorite uncle in OKC, which might come back around the time you are sitting in class at that coveted 121 job. Good chance they would pull a guy/gal from class and very publicly fire them for nondisclosure for the failure. Try explaining that one at your next interview (why you only worked for XYZ airline for 3 weeks):eek:

You absolutely did the right thing by disclosing it.

No it won't.

what's your source?

Well it was't on mine. In adition, the chief pilot for GCA is a regular contributor to these boards, and has never seen a part 91 pink slip sent from OKC. The records employers receicve are not the same records you get if you request a copy. The only records sent are for accidents, incidents or violations. Which also happen to be the questions on the PRIA form.

But 8410s are sent from previous employers, which would include records of failed checkrides for 135 or 121 operators.

I actally asked to see my records in my last interview. I had never seen them before and was wondering what they looked like. No part 61 or 141 records at all. No records of any GA activity whatever. A failed 121 checkride was on the record... The records were exactly what I received from PRIA, which also contains nothing at all about 61 or 141 checkrides.

In all the interveiws that I have done I have been asked about failed checkrides. In all of them I answered honestly and openly (except one). From an HR standpoint they can tell a lot about you from the way you explain your failings. To think that you have never failed a check is just plain foolish... But, watching you confidently explain your mistakes allows them to see so very much about how you deal with problems, challenges, and personal growth. Those things are directly transferable to how you are going to act in the crew environment.

I've been offered every job I applied for but the first one... the one in which I wasn't prepared for the interview and squirmed like a dead fish about my failed checkrides. When I realized that it wasn't really the checkride performance they were asking about, but instead how I dealt with failure and challenges it was never an issue again.

IMO that thing on the front page of APC about failed checkrides is a load of crap... I've failed my fair share. I'm no super-pilot. Wouldn't want to be.

They can, and do check if you've failed a ride. You did the right thing by disclosing it.

Not true; if I got everything the employer did. My FAA records request only said that I had no violations, incidents or accidents as such and such date. That being said, a commercial multi pink slip isn't going to prevent you from being hired so you did the right thing by telling them.

Not if they can't read the hand writing. :D

:::THREAD REVIVAL:::

So looking at the recent apps online these days...most of the regionals are very interested in past failed checkrides. Thanks to a certain Colgan pilot....so I was giving it some thought, and for those of us who have a 141 background, we have never "failed" checkrides. But I was doing some thinking about the current climate of pilot employer scrutiny. How would they react to say a failed stage check or failed xxxxx checkride... or even a combination now-a-days? Even they have to know that just because you come from a 141 background....there are still people that fail checkrides just like the 61 world. Thoughts?

I think they are using it as a filter for applications. Failed a ride (135/121)and poof your out of the process.

Part 141 stage checks are NOT FAA checkrides. You do not have to report one as a "failed checkride."

Perhaps, but it's still not worth it to lie. Right now, airlines are getting hundreds of apps for each open spot, but still, I know guys who've been hired in lean times with multiple 121 checkride failures. And tons of guys with spotless records who didn't.

Personally, I learned more from my 121 bust than any other lesson in my aviation career.

But hey, to each his own.

I agree with you. I think anyone who has failed one is much better off from the learning process and probably had their fair share of mental anguish over it.
I also don't think lying about something in your past is good either but the way its treated as a black flag now will lead people to do just that.