Airline application and background issues
12-01-2008, 04:54 PM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 3
Airline application and background issues
Ok this is a two part question. I want to be completely honest and upfront which I know is the best policy when applying to the airlines. I also don't want to put anything on my application that will trigger an "automatic rejection" either.
1. I've been working as a CFI / independent contractor for the past 6 months. I've worked for two different schools during this time period along with teaching students in their own planes. Do I list myself as "self employed / independent contractor" for the current employer since I was never technically an employee for any of the schools?
2. I was "let go" by one of the schools a few months ago. I got into "an argument" with someone (outside of the workplace, nothing to do with anyone who worked there) and long story short, I was arrested and spent a couple days in jail for "fighting". The D.A. and judge dismissed the case so I have no record except for a record of arrest which I already know might be an issue. I'm in the process of getting it expunged however I know this will still show up on the FBI background check. Hopefully it won't disqualify me and I can explain it since it did not result in a conviction or plea bargain or any sort. When the application asks if I've ever been terminated by an employer do I need to answer "yes" ? Technically my contract wasn't renewed but I don't want to sound deceptive. It is what it is....
1. I've been working as a CFI / independent contractor for the past 6 months. I've worked for two different schools during this time period along with teaching students in their own planes. Do I list myself as "self employed / independent contractor" for the current employer since I was never technically an employee for any of the schools?
2. I was "let go" by one of the schools a few months ago. I got into "an argument" with someone (outside of the workplace, nothing to do with anyone who worked there) and long story short, I was arrested and spent a couple days in jail for "fighting". The D.A. and judge dismissed the case so I have no record except for a record of arrest which I already know might be an issue. I'm in the process of getting it expunged however I know this will still show up on the FBI background check. Hopefully it won't disqualify me and I can explain it since it did not result in a conviction or plea bargain or any sort. When the application asks if I've ever been terminated by an employer do I need to answer "yes" ? Technically my contract wasn't renewed but I don't want to sound deceptive. It is what it is....
12-02-2008, 12:58 PM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
These are kind of nebulous issues in several respects.
Employment: The official definition of "employed" would probably require a W-2. If you did not do the W-2/W-4 drill with the school, then you were a subcontractor. The reality from an interview/background check perspective is that they are going to want to call someone and verify that you worked there. You want to make sure that whoever they talk to tells them the same thing that YOU told them. If in doubt, work that out in advance with your reference. If you had a W-2 and did freelance, then you were both an employee and a freelancer. You will need a reference for the freelance work..another CFI or even a student just to verify that you weren't running dope from mexico during that time frame (I'm serious).
2. Not sure why you got fired if it had nothing to do with work? If work knew about the arrest, then a potential employer might hear about it when they call references. The good news is no conviction. The bad news is that some (or most?) airlines can and will ask if you have been arrested. If you lie and they find out, expect to be terminated and pretty much blacklisted from 121 aviation.
The last one is a tough call...in the current climate anything questionable could easily cause an employer to move on to other applicants with clean records (less hassle for the HR folks). I would probably try to research what specific employers ask on their apps and interviews...hopefully you can find someone who does not even ask about it.
Employment: The official definition of "employed" would probably require a W-2. If you did not do the W-2/W-4 drill with the school, then you were a subcontractor. The reality from an interview/background check perspective is that they are going to want to call someone and verify that you worked there. You want to make sure that whoever they talk to tells them the same thing that YOU told them. If in doubt, work that out in advance with your reference. If you had a W-2 and did freelance, then you were both an employee and a freelancer. You will need a reference for the freelance work..another CFI or even a student just to verify that you weren't running dope from mexico during that time frame (I'm serious).
2. Not sure why you got fired if it had nothing to do with work? If work knew about the arrest, then a potential employer might hear about it when they call references. The good news is no conviction. The bad news is that some (or most?) airlines can and will ask if you have been arrested. If you lie and they find out, expect to be terminated and pretty much blacklisted from 121 aviation.
The last one is a tough call...in the current climate anything questionable could easily cause an employer to move on to other applicants with clean records (less hassle for the HR folks). I would probably try to research what specific employers ask on their apps and interviews...hopefully you can find someone who does not even ask about it.
12-07-2008, 07:15 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Aviation Consultant
Posts: 320
SoCal,
On the first issue: employment.
Who paid you? If you were paid directly from the student then you are a sole proprietor. If you received payment from the school, and in turn received a 1099 at the end of the year, then you are an independent contractor. The key is - did (or will) you receive a 1099?
But seriously, we are splitting hairs here. Either way you will fill out a schedule C for your taxes and we are really talking about the same thing with regard to freelance flight instruction. Personally, I would list it as an independent contractor since you were representing the school, so to speak. Does that make sense?
The second issue: termination.
I agree with RickAir here... the arrest and the termination are two separate issues - according to you. So what's the story? What reason did they give you for termination? Non-renewal of contract is just that - not termination. So in order to know how to answer the termination question on an application it's important to know what the company said to you.
Yes, the arrest will show on your FBI report. And just like RickAir said, many airlines ask if you have ever been arrested. Be prepared to talk about it. It is great news that you were not convicted - that is hugely in your favor. If you have to disclose it on an application, please, please, please do NOT write "will discuss in interview." Nothing ****es off a recruiter/interviewer more than that. Have the decency to write a statement of what happened - they will respect you more for it. Once they read the statement they may decide it's worth diving into details a bit more and invite you to interview. If you don't write anything then they will automatically think you are hiding something and won't bother inviting you.
I would recommend obtaining a certified copy of the disposition of this case and keep it with your interview materials. This will be very helpful.
I wish you the very best,
Lori
On the first issue: employment.
Who paid you? If you were paid directly from the student then you are a sole proprietor. If you received payment from the school, and in turn received a 1099 at the end of the year, then you are an independent contractor. The key is - did (or will) you receive a 1099?
But seriously, we are splitting hairs here. Either way you will fill out a schedule C for your taxes and we are really talking about the same thing with regard to freelance flight instruction. Personally, I would list it as an independent contractor since you were representing the school, so to speak. Does that make sense?
The second issue: termination.
I agree with RickAir here... the arrest and the termination are two separate issues - according to you. So what's the story? What reason did they give you for termination? Non-renewal of contract is just that - not termination. So in order to know how to answer the termination question on an application it's important to know what the company said to you.
Yes, the arrest will show on your FBI report. And just like RickAir said, many airlines ask if you have ever been arrested. Be prepared to talk about it. It is great news that you were not convicted - that is hugely in your favor. If you have to disclose it on an application, please, please, please do NOT write "will discuss in interview." Nothing ****es off a recruiter/interviewer more than that. Have the decency to write a statement of what happened - they will respect you more for it. Once they read the statement they may decide it's worth diving into details a bit more and invite you to interview. If you don't write anything then they will automatically think you are hiding something and won't bother inviting you.
I would recommend obtaining a certified copy of the disposition of this case and keep it with your interview materials. This will be very helpful.
I wish you the very best,
Lori
