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-   -   Do busts really matter if from PNCL or MESA?? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/career-questions/51223-do-busts-really-matter-if-pncl-mesa.html)

Pinchanickled 06-08-2010 09:25 AM

Do busts really matter if from PNCL or MESA??
 
I have had good luck on all my checkrides from when I first started. I worked at another regional airline before with a long wait for upgrade. I came here to go for the "guaranteed" quick upgrade. Unfortunately, that did not happen with the age 65 rule.

Recently I "popped" a checkride here. First and only failure. I am wondering how the majors will look at this.

I know majors look very closely at your training record. But if they see a bust on a PC at one of these bottom feeder companies, do they even consider it? Now I truely know the reason and driving force behind the quick upgrade here.

It just seems when you have an airline that hands out failures like a NYC meterman, that the recruiters at the top level would probably see right through that.

PinnacleFO 06-08-2010 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by Pinchanickled (Post 823326)
I have had good luck on all my checkrides from when I first started. I worked at another regional airline before with a long wait for upgrade. I came here to go for the "guaranteed" quick upgrade. Unfortunately, that did not happen with the age 65 rule.

Recently I "popped" a checkride here. First and only failure. I am wondering how the majors will look at this.

I know majors look very closely at your training record. But if they see a bust on a PC at one of these bottom feeder companies, do they even consider it? Now I truely know the reason and driving force behind the quick upgrade here.

It just seems when you have an airline that hands out failures like a NYC meterman, that the recruiters at the top level would probably see right through that.

If you go into the interview saying Pinnacle fails everyone, then i hope you enjoy your career at pinnacle. Admit you screwed up, know the reason why you screwed up, and man up and show that you learned from it, and they probably wont care about one failure.

afterburn81 06-08-2010 09:33 AM

Not to be rude, but are you asking if you are considered a real pilot or semi pilot if you work for Mesa? It just seems like a silly question. If you feel that a regional airline has an inferior level to the quality of pilot and training than that of a major, passing the checkride should be easier right? What I mean is that a pilot is a pilot and expected to perform to the standards put forth by the FAA no matter which carrier you are at. Of course a legacy or major would see that as a flaw in your abilities. If you can't hack it at a regional, then why should you be able to hack it at a legacy?

Spoilers 06-08-2010 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by afterburn81 (Post 823330)
Not to be rude, but are you asking if you are considered a real pilot or semi pilot if you work for Mesa? It just seems like a silly question. If you feel that a regional airline has an inferior level to the quality of pilot and training than that of a major, passing the checkride should be easier right?

I agree. It sounds like you trying to blame the company you work for.

DAL4EVER 06-08-2010 09:43 AM

Be honest in the interview and admit why you had an unsat. Busts can and will happen in a career. More than one and you will have a hard time explaining that "it was just a bad day". Reference Colgan and Pinnacles crashes. Both commanded by Captains who had "five bad days" and their sub par performance led them to the final bad day. An unsat should be a time of introspection. Ask yourself why you failed and how you can improve your performance. Don't let it happen again. Some guys have bad days and others are genuinely unprepared. Either way, improve the performance.

jiminmem 06-08-2010 10:14 AM

As stated, admit you screwed up and don't blame anyone else. Everyone has bad days and didn't perform as they should have. Just show how you improved yourself and that's about it.

Blaming the training department is about the worst thing you can do. I was at Pinnacle for 7 years and never busted, I know plenty of people there for longer who haven't also.

Pinchanickled 06-08-2010 10:27 AM


Originally Posted by afterburn81 (Post 823330)
If you feel that a regional airline has an inferior level to the quality of pilot and training than that of a major, passing the checkride should be easier right? What I mean is that a pilot is a pilot and expected to perform to the standards put forth by the FAA no matter which carrier you are at.

Understandably, there are standards set forth that pilots AND the examiners need to follow. Given multiple failures at the same time is rediculous. If the examiner doesn't create a realistic environment, what do you do?? When you're going missed on a CAT 2, and an engine fire happens along with thrust reverser deployment all at the same time...is overwhelming. No excuses, but a fair shake would be nice to have. And it doesn't make it any easier when your examiner has a reputation of having a desire to fail people.

It just amazes me, failures are rare at major airlines. Regional airlines fail people constantly. Is it the quick minded video game playing younger generation that are better pilots? Or the gray haired weather pilots with experience better? YOU CANT SAY!!! It's really determined by each individual pilot. All I know is the bottom feeders are plagued with failures. Busts at bottom feeders are just a way of life it seems. At the major level, the more professional level, it seems that warm up sims, training to proficiency are a very very nice thing to have on your side.

DashDriverYV 06-08-2010 10:49 AM

From the ATP PTS.
 
F. TASK: MISSED APPROACH
REFERENCES: 14 CFR part 61; POH/AFM; AIM; Standard
Instrument Approach Procedure Charts (SIAP); FAA-H-8083-15,
FAA-H-8261-1.
NOTE:
The applicant must perform two missed approaches with one
being from a precision approach (ILS, MLS, or GLS). One complete
published missed approach must be accomplished. Additionally, in
multiengine airplanes, a missed approach must be accomplished
with one engine inoperative (or simulated inoperative). The engine
failure may be experienced anytime prior to the initiation of the
approach, during the approach, or during the transition to the missed
approach attitude and configuration.

Descending below the MDA or continuing a precision approach
below DH/DA as appropriate, unless the runway environment is in
sight is considered unsatisfactory performance. However, even if the
missed approach is properly initiated at DA/DH, most airplanes
descend below DA/DH because of the momentum of the airplane
transitioning from a stabilized approach to a missed approach. This
descent below DA/DH is not considered unsatisfactory, as long as
the precision approach was not continued below DA/DH.

Objective.
To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of missed approach
procedures associated with standard instrument approaches
to include reference to standby (backup or fail down)
instruments.
2. Initiates the missed approach procedure promptly by the
timely application of power, establishes the proper climb
attitude, and reduces drag in accordance with the approved
procedures.
3. Reports to ATC, beginning the missed approach procedure.
4. Complies with the appropriate missed approach procedure or
ATC clearance.
5. Advises ATC any time the applicant is unable to maneuver
the airplane to comply with a clearance.
6. Follows the recommended airplane checklist items or
coordinates with crew to ensure completion of checklist items
in a timely manner and as recommended by the manufacturer
appropriate to the go-around procedure for the airplane used.
7. Requests clearance, if appropriate, to the alternate airport,
another approach, a holding fix, or as directed by the
examiner.
8. Maintains the desired altitudes ±100 feet, airspeed ±5 knots,
heading ±5°; and accurately tracks courses, radials, and

bearings


Thanks for once again bashing us "Bottom Feeders".

I wouldn't go complaining to your next employer that this is unfair. wont go very far. Good Luck

80ktsClamp 06-08-2010 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by Pinchanickled (Post 823359)
Understandably, there are standards set forth that pilots AND the examiners need to follow. Given multiple failures at the same time is rediculous. If the examiner doesn't create a realistic environment, what do you do?? When you're going missed on a CAT 2, and an engine fire happens along with thrust reverser deployment all at the same time...is overwhelming. No excuses, but a fair shake would be nice to have. And it doesn't make it any easier when your examiner has a reputation of having a desire to fail people.

It just amazes me, failures are rare at major airlines. Regional airlines fail people constantly. Is it the quick minded video game playing younger generation that are better pilots? Or the gray haired weather pilots with experience better? YOU CANT SAY!!! It's really determined by each individual pilot. All I know is the bottom feeders are plagued with failures. Busts at bottom feeders are just a way of life it seems. At the major level, the more professional level, it seems that warm up sims, training to proficiency are a very very nice thing to have on your side.

How long have you been at Pinnacle? You should know after at least a couple rides that when you push the power up on a go around in the sim, something is probably going to happen and it's not going to be fun.

While that is one of the harsher things I've heard done (if that's really how it happened), it is what it is and you've got to play the game as many of us on here have done and succeeed.

Man up to the unsat and see what you did wrong and make yourself better from it. I've been rode hard by TH as much as many others on here.


So yes... busts really do matter. Don't collect them. I consider myself a much better pilot for the wringer that I got put through during my time there.

BoilerUP 06-08-2010 11:04 AM

Its been a while...but I didn't think they could give you compound failures on a "jeopardy" checking event?


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