Misdemeanour Question
11-30-2010 | 05:48 PM
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,882
Likes: 683
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Here's an example of what happens when the employer believes they have caught you lying on your app...
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/as...tml#post909285
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/as...tml#post909285
Last edited by rickair7777; 12-02-2010 at 09:20 AM.
11-30-2010 | 06:18 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
From: ERJ CA
Here's an example of what happens when you lie on your app and get caught...
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/as...tml#post909285
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/as...tml#post909285
12-02-2010 | 07:59 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Aviation Consultant
Alright Mr. Perfect. I made a mistake I didn't lie. Bad things happen when you assume things, I've learned this already...If it was brought to my attention during my interview I would have caught it and could have explained it, then they could have made their decision to not hire me. Unfortunately their decision had to come a couple weeks later. Wasn't trying to cover things up before and not trying to now. Just trying to make things right the best way I can.
What you're asking really boils down to an ethical question that only you can answer (that is if the record cannot be and is not found). It is a risk not to disclose it, and only you can decide if that's a risk you want to take. You mentioned "If it was brought to my attention during my interview I would have caught it and could have explained it" - can you clarify this? Have you interviewed when it came up? Realistically, what happened to you shouldn't be a large issue in the interview as long as you take responsibility and there isn't a track record of other law-breaking events (viewed as a disregard for the law.)
this post is very thorough and thoughtful:
I would suggest you might want to look at the thread in Pre Interview that covers this topic. The facts:
1. No employee decides, and no applicant's opinion determines what standards will be used by his / her potential employer to decide whether employment is offered. You will have to live by their standards, not by what you feel is fair.
2. The FAA medical certificate requirements are very specific in terms of reporting requirements. BS these and you can go to jail. The TSA also has stringent requirements as to what offenses will preclude the issuance of a securtity clearance incident to operating as a flight crew member. Look these up online before you spend lots of money on training or obtaining ratings. You might eventually qualify after an intervening time period as required by TSA regulations has elapsed following the offense, and assuming no other subsequent offense.
3. The employer may also have their own corporate standard, that must at least equal federal requirements but which may be more stringent. Should an incident or accident occur, they're not going to want some journalist to point out that one of the crewmembers has a history of x type of offense(s). Airline pilots are held to a higher standard than many occupations for obvious reasons.
4. Background checks may include information from a variety of sources, and most offenses in the last 10 years are available in at least one electronic data base. It is true that older offenses on paper systems are harder to track.
If you're hired, but hide something, and the background check uncovers it, you will probably be uncerimoniously shown the door, and you will now have a termination on your record to deal with. Remember, you're signing an application that says you agree that supplying inaccurate or false information is grounds for termination...NO MATTER WHEN THE COMPANY discovers the issue.
That said, if you have one incident years ago, and a clean record since then, and no other yellow flags like failed checkrides, you are still in the game. Apply...but be truthful in the application and interview process.
1. No employee decides, and no applicant's opinion determines what standards will be used by his / her potential employer to decide whether employment is offered. You will have to live by their standards, not by what you feel is fair.
2. The FAA medical certificate requirements are very specific in terms of reporting requirements. BS these and you can go to jail. The TSA also has stringent requirements as to what offenses will preclude the issuance of a securtity clearance incident to operating as a flight crew member. Look these up online before you spend lots of money on training or obtaining ratings. You might eventually qualify after an intervening time period as required by TSA regulations has elapsed following the offense, and assuming no other subsequent offense.
3. The employer may also have their own corporate standard, that must at least equal federal requirements but which may be more stringent. Should an incident or accident occur, they're not going to want some journalist to point out that one of the crewmembers has a history of x type of offense(s). Airline pilots are held to a higher standard than many occupations for obvious reasons.
4. Background checks may include information from a variety of sources, and most offenses in the last 10 years are available in at least one electronic data base. It is true that older offenses on paper systems are harder to track.
If you're hired, but hide something, and the background check uncovers it, you will probably be uncerimoniously shown the door, and you will now have a termination on your record to deal with. Remember, you're signing an application that says you agree that supplying inaccurate or false information is grounds for termination...NO MATTER WHEN THE COMPANY discovers the issue.
That said, if you have one incident years ago, and a clean record since then, and no other yellow flags like failed checkrides, you are still in the game. Apply...but be truthful in the application and interview process.
12-02-2010 | 09:08 AM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,882
Likes: 683
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Alright Mr. Perfect. I made a mistake I didn't lie. Bad things happen when you assume things, I've learned this already...If it was brought to my attention during my interview I would have caught it and could have explained it, then they could have made their decision to not hire me. Unfortunately their decision had to come a couple weeks later. Wasn't trying to cover things up before and not trying to now. Just trying to make things right the best way I can.
In no way was I intending to disparage you personally, since I don't know who you are or what the actual facts are. I'm inclined to believe you actually, so please don't take this as anything more than a generic example.
As far as being perfect...I am perfect in the sense that I'm not going to lie to a potential employer. I also have no serious background problems or criminal record. The aviation business in general, and airlines in particular, really do not need unethical or criminal pilots. There's a difference between youthful indiscretions, poor judgement, and real crime. Youthful indiscretions are harmless and probably don't indicate any future problems. Bad judgement is relatively harmless, but you should have known better and there needs to be some indication that your judgement has improved. A real criminal has no business in this business (and a lot of other businesses) and probably cannot ever be truly "rehabilitated"...although there are always exceptions.
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