From what I've read here, you're covered. The student lied to you if I understand correctly. You signed him off based on what you saw and understood. It's not your responsibility to call FSS every time to verify that your student actually called. After he gets in the air, it's really on the instructor who signed him off to begin with. The only thing you did was verify his planning.

You did the right thing by filing an ASAP. I would say you're covered and wouldn't worry about a violation. If anything the student and his primary instructor will receive the reprimands.

Just my $.02

 

My guess is that you will get to talk to a fed because they will want some info. At that point they will probably not issue an LOI on you, but depending on what you tell them and what they find out, they could always go that route later.

Students do this kind of thing, and the FAA understands it. The only reason this might be a higher level of concern is because 121 operations were disrupted at a Class B.

But it still sounds like you did everything right. You are NOT responsible for everything a solo student does...you are responsible for providing and documenting the required training and oversight.

The only thing....was Wx a factor? With less experienced students I listen to the Wx brief with them. With more experienced students, I let them do it but I get the same brief myself for verification and keep the duats printout for a few months. I would say that they might expect a CFI to verify the Wx rather than take a student's word for it (even an honest student could mis-interpret a wx brief).

 

Thanks again for all the replies. The weather that day was 10 and clear, so I wasn't overly concerned about the weather brief, it mostly speaks to the issues I had with the student. I guess it may take some time to hear something from the FAA, so I'll just keep going until that happens. Thanks for all the input, and if anyone has anything else I always appreciate the guidance. Thanks for your time.

 

I've had students do some pretty stupid things while they were out on their solo flights. The FAA generally considers the instructor to be the FAA and to appropriately correct their students. They're students for a reason. If the FAA calls, then yes, your student did make a mistake, you did cover that particular topic plus the underlying one and/or the previous instructor taught it per this logbook entry (you are making ground instruction logbook entries aren't you) and you verified it, and you have corrected the student so it will not happen again per this logbook entry. If you want to play with fire, you can invite the Inspector out to meet with you and the student to "further drive the point home that the student ought not to do [whatever] again and/or provide some additional emphasis on the student's hazardous attitude problem [anti-authority/impulsiveness/resignation/etc.]."

With being lost, all of navigation needs to be reviewed as well as airspace, ATC communications, and lost procedures. Especially around Class B airspaces, the pilot must be navigating with three sources of navigation, so if one fails, the others are there for backup. Pilotage is great, like LA, go three miles in any direction, look down, houses, trees, and a freeway intersection. Go three miles in any direction again, look down. Houses, some trees, and a freeway intersection. Ded reckoning, helps as a backup, but not for use without radio nav or pilotage. Navigation, is the student using the charts properly, backing up the GPS with VORs and NDBs? Was the student using flight following, and if not, why not? These are all items an FAA Inspector will be questioning.

In my work with the Remedial Training Program, I've learned of an Inspector calling a DPE to ensure extra time would be spent on a topic of interest during a student's checkride, for which the instructor was under investigation, and another case where the Inspector invited himself along on the checkride to observe the student.

If you want to grab the bull by the horns, call up the FAASTeam Manager (used to be Safety Program Manager) and ask if there are any upcoming airspace WINGS seminars (unless one is on the SPANS website, then ask about if it'd be appropriate for a student). During the conversation you can inquire if there is an active investigation about you and/or the student. You could do the same with ATL TRACON, call up, ask for the Q/A specialist, and ask if there is anything on the logs on that date. The conversation will bring up the why, which is you, as instructor, are being proactive with correcting your student so it won't happen again.

Any of the above steps should move you from "worst of time-building stereotype" to an active instructor that cares about their students and less likely to need a violation to kick you into shape.

Be aware that some airlines are now asking if any of your students have violated regulations while under your instruction. All you can do is be honest.

 

Being retired from the people who will be contacting you shortly, I think there is reason for concern. You do have responsibility for the oversight of the student. A simple sign-off and its all his fault or the original CFI did a bad job, will not fly. How do you instruct? Through a school or on the side? How much time did you spend with the student, any ground school, were any written tests given or did you assume that everything the student needed to know was already covered? Depending on the workload of the Inspector, it may take days to a month or more to get to your case, but since they now have a package on the situation and especially an airspace violation and involving an air carrier, it will be dealt with. Many variables to consider and I only know what you said here but if you main concern is if you will lose your license, nope. Will you get a violation? Instruct for a bad outfit, any previous violations, have other students from your school caused problems or get asked to call atc a lot? Do you have a good attitude about ensuring future students at least have a quick review to ensure essential knowledge now that YOU are their CFI, especially foreign students which are a known higher risk due to language issues? YOU are responsible for the oversight of the student even if he doesn't do what you say, YOU are responsible that he has the knowledge needed, he's a primary student with zero certifications, he may have 100 hours and all of it bad instruction, you sign him off and while the previous CFI will get attention also, YOU were the last one with the opportunity to break the chain. There is a lot of poor instruction out there and its not always "he's just a bad student". FSDO knows this and will be quick to see where the issue really is. Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but if you deal with FSDO by blaming the student and the previous CFI for everything and you being 100% not responsible at all, I can assure you, will get you the very attention you are so much trying to avoid.

Jedinein gave some excellent points also.

 

Thank you for the replies again. I appreciate your view points, but I just want to mention a few things. The school is a 141 organization, so everything is well documented. As I said before I had 3 hours of flight training and 5 hours of ground training with the student. I'm not trying to blame anything on the school or the previous instructor, and I am fully willing to accept the blame in this. I'm a 400 hour pilot, and I realize I have a lot to learn. This is not just a case of me trying to find the fault in others, I'm just trying to make sure I didn't just end my career. I've consulted both the AOPA and DFW TRACON, and I'm planning a trip to TRACON to see what the student did and learn something from them. I don't want to be just a time builder instructor, I've dealt with that type and they're bad for students and for aviation in general. I know it was my call to sign off the student and my responsibility. I just want a chance to learn from this before it wrecks my future, and I was mostly wondering what the FAA will say and trying to talk to people who might know how I should present my case and whether or not I need a new career choice. This whole thing is on me, and it's been one of the single most terrify and stressful experiences I've had in aviation, and I really want to make something good out of it. Other than my initial CFI check ride I've never had any experience with a FSDO. I've never had any other issues or violations, and certainly nothing like this. The student is going to be retrained or sent home (not a decision in my power, I've been working for this company for two months), and if the retraining is up to me, it's going to be extensive and well documented. All the questions that you two (jedinien and turbine26) are asking are really good points, and I appreciate the insight. I'm just trying to make myself a little more clear and plead my case a little. Thanks again

 

Turbine is saying they are likely to investigate and that's what they should do when wild stuff happens in their zone. He said you will not lose your tickets. Try and cover all the usual bases, be honest and realize that any student handed to you is still your full responsibility. We all make mistakes and students are somewhat unpredictable. I have had near seizures over giving adequate instruction. To some extent what a student does is beyond our control, but we have to do everything within our control and that is the question here. I am sure you will come out fine or at least learn something useful. It does sound like you have a lame student but his failure should serve as a lesson what to do with a lame student or one with a foggy background.

I had a student take off here recently with the oil cap loose and she lost 4 quarts of 5 on the first leg of her long cross country. She was smart enough to see the oil temp peg and got some oil before the engine quit, but what could I have done about her brain lapse leaving the oil cap off? There's no way to predict random events like this. If there were an incident a question would arise about what I done to teach proper preflighting, airplane systems, use of cockpit instruments, and do a documented airplane checkout. You are up against having to show that you connected the dots in the proper way and that's about all you can do.

 

If your school is a reputable outfit and not a "pilot-mill" for foreigners and they have a clean record and good reputation with FSDO and ATC, I believe, especially being a 141 that once assured there's a process in place to prevent an re-occurrence, this situation is over. Now if there's more to the details or the school has a bad rep or FSDO has already gotten many calls from ATC on the students, all bets are off. If it does hit the fan, with 141's, it usually management who takes the hit and that's the purpose of a 141 is to have oversight of the CFI's who have oversight of the students. Management will usually sacrifice a CFI rather than lose students or a 141 certificate as their "solution". It looks good on paper to say we eliminated the problem even though he might not be the problem, and the FAA has no say in the matter as they took corrective action even if we think otherwise, unless it happens again. If your comfortable with your situation with the CP, I think you can stop worrying.