39 yo Career Change?
12-18-2011, 11:40 AM
#21
New Hire
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Joined APC: Dec 2011
Posts: 7
Thanks for the comments. I also agree that the grass is always greener on the other side. As some of you laugh that a lawyer would want to change to a pilot, I laugh when I hear about pilots changing careers to be a lawyer.
I think what it comes down to, is unless you try it, you always think the career is better. Of course, I believe the satisfaction of going to court, representing clients, winning cases and etc is gone. While pilots still think that is a better alternative to flying. I think the traveling and flexible schedule sounds appealing. I would love to have 15 days off a month. Right now, I probably have less than 4.
Is it possible to bypass the regionals and go straight to a major? Assuming of course, you have all of your hours and etc, including ATP?
I think I could probably get 1500+ hours without a regional.
I think what it comes down to, is unless you try it, you always think the career is better. Of course, I believe the satisfaction of going to court, representing clients, winning cases and etc is gone. While pilots still think that is a better alternative to flying. I think the traveling and flexible schedule sounds appealing. I would love to have 15 days off a month. Right now, I probably have less than 4.
Is it possible to bypass the regionals and go straight to a major? Assuming of course, you have all of your hours and etc, including ATP?
I think I could probably get 1500+ hours without a regional.
12-18-2011, 11:45 AM
#22
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2: As far as the 6-figures go, you WILL NOT be making that for AT LEAST 10 years in this industry. This assumes you will either be at 10yr CA pay at a decent regional OR 2-3 year FO at a good major.
3: The stress with this job is different, you will stress over your commute, getting time off that you need, little control over your schedule depending on seniority, factors in the market affecting your company resulting in growth/contraction, etc.
12-18-2011, 11:49 AM
#23
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Yes, but you would have to come from the military flying pipeline, a corporate jet captain job or a part 135 multi-engine turbine captain. Plan on needing at least 1,000 hours of turbine command time before you will meet the minimums. Most airlines like to see multi-crew experience and prior part 121 experience. You can really only get that at a regional airline.
12-18-2011, 12:30 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
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Absolutely, all you need is an ATP/type rating in a jet, and a bunch of hours as PIC of said jet, probably around 3000+ to be competative I'd imagine. You also need the major airlines to not go bankrupt and not condense/sell off their routes.
12-18-2011, 12:46 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,550
Thanks for the comments. I also agree that the grass is always greener on the other side. As some of you laugh that a lawyer would want to change to a pilot, I laugh when I hear about pilots changing careers to be a lawyer.
I think what it comes down to, is unless you try it, you always think the career is better. Of course, I believe the satisfaction of going to court, representing clients, winning cases and etc is gone. While pilots still think that is a better alternative to flying. I think the traveling and flexible schedule sounds appealing. I would love to have 15 days off a month. Right now, I probably have less than 4.
Is it possible to bypass the regionals and go straight to a major? Assuming of course, you have all of your hours and etc, including ATP?
I think I could probably get 1500+ hours without a regional.
I think what it comes down to, is unless you try it, you always think the career is better. Of course, I believe the satisfaction of going to court, representing clients, winning cases and etc is gone. While pilots still think that is a better alternative to flying. I think the traveling and flexible schedule sounds appealing. I would love to have 15 days off a month. Right now, I probably have less than 4.
Is it possible to bypass the regionals and go straight to a major? Assuming of course, you have all of your hours and etc, including ATP?
I think I could probably get 1500+ hours without a regional.
NO amount of general aviation/piston time will get you a job at a major...GA time is ONLY useful to get into a stepping-stone job: regional, 135 night freight, or crappy entry-level corporate jobs.
Major airline and GOOD corporate jobs will require at least 1000 multi-turbine PIC, probably more like 2000-3000 to compete. Exception for F-16 and AV8-B pilots...they can get by with single-engine turbine PIC.
12-18-2011, 01:06 PM
#26
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Posts: 2,634
Although, I was told by a buddy of mine that works for a major it could be much less. He advised me when I am hired by a regional to get based out of their least desirable location. He said I would shoot up the seniority list and become a captain in a short amount of time. He also advised me to do this if and when I was hired by a major. To get the biggest bang in the shortest amount of time with the airlines, he said to move to their least desirable locations.
12-18-2011, 05:04 PM
#27
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Posts: 39,550
It's not 100% wrong. You don't have to go to a junior base in order to GET the upgrade, but once you get it THEN you have to go.
12-18-2011, 05:26 PM
#28
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12-18-2011, 08:05 PM
#29
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 3
That sort of flexibility is critical for a mid-life career changer (that or have a couple million in liquid assets)
Bottom line, no. But that depends on your goals...you're not too old to be a regional capatain or a major FO (maybe even upgrade to major CA and spend the last few years of your career sitting ready reserve in LGA at 0500 on christmas morning, if that's what you really want).
You are too old to be a wide-body international captain. You are too old to be a major captain with a good quality of life.
Most importantly you are too old to go into aviation with any expectation of getting ahead financially...your entire career will be financial damage-control.
You are too old to go into aviation if your retirement is not fully-funded (or you have a non-aviation means of achieving that...side job, inheritance, etc).
Good plan. But at your age you will want to move along quickly so between work and training you will not have much free time. Hopefully you don't have a family?
With a little industry-timing luck you should be able to do this. Hopefully you can get a CFI job at your local airport and keep your real job. Unless you have the flexibility to travel for an MEI job you may ultimately need to buy 50-300 ME hours. Assume you will need 1500 TT.
That depends. If you can do it all online you probably can find a way (it will be really rough during airline new-hire training, that is 8-12 all-consuming weeks). As a new-hire you will be on reserve...you may very well have a lot of time on your hands but it will not be in your hometown. Unless you happen to live in a place where a lot of regionals have low seniority hubs (NY/NJ, Chicago) you will be commuting to reserve...after you account for travel that will mean 2-6 days actually home...per month.
Theoretically, yes. Majors all used to require 1000 hours turbine PIC (regional CA time) but many have lowered that to simply 1000 turbine which means FO time counts. But the reality is that turbine PIC is still the gold standard, and odds are low that you will get hired without upgrading at the regional (unless you have good internal connections). Upgrade 4-15 years, plus a couple years to build time = 6 - 17 years at a regional. Most of the bell curve will be 8-12...but unfortunately there is no guarantee that YOU won't be the guy on the far right.
This all depends on hiring demand, which could change things dramatically. My guess is that majors will have to hire (demographics, too many guys pushing age 60) but the regional business model will collapse, resulting in significant job losses over the next 10-15 years. The major hiring and regional collapse will somewhat balance each other out to the extent that folks should be able to move up the regional ranks...but that can vary wildly depending on who your employer is.
It could be a tie-breaker since you already have one, but quality flight experience always trumps advanced education. So it's not going to matter much. Also the military guys get first crack at the major jobs, and they mostly all have masters anyway. This is not to say that it might not be a bad idea to earn a marketable masters as a back-up before embarking on an aviation career (if you're young)
No. Well it might be an OK goal to keep you motivated and on track with the factors you can control...but NOT a good schedule if you are doing financial planning around this...way too much depends on industry conditions and seniority at your regional.
My guess:
- 2 years for ratings (you can compress to one if you really bust ***).
- 2 Years to get to 1500 (you can compress to one if you really bust ***).
- 0-1 years to get hired at a regional (sometimes they just don't call)
- 3-5 years as an FO (assuming you have the good fortune to pick the regional you want, and you choose one with fast upgrade times).
- 2-3 years to build TPIC (if you upgrade at first opportunity you will be a reserve captain and may have very few opportunities to actually fly your first years or two...depends on the manpower situation).
Total: 13 years to major. Seven if everything works perfectly (you bust *** and the industry timing works PERFECTLY). Ten years is the average planning number most people will tell you.
You didn't say whether you have spouse and kids...if so, you would be really going out an a limb financially. Also in order to "fast-track" yourself you will probably end up divorced with kids in therapy over why daddy hates them and likes airplanes instead. I tried the fast-track approach myself but had to apply the brakes hard so I could focus on the REAL priorities.
Bottom line, no. But that depends on your goals...you're not too old to be a regional capatain or a major FO (maybe even upgrade to major CA and spend the last few years of your career sitting ready reserve in LGA at 0500 on christmas morning, if that's what you really want).
You are too old to be a wide-body international captain. You are too old to be a major captain with a good quality of life.
Most importantly you are too old to go into aviation with any expectation of getting ahead financially...your entire career will be financial damage-control.
You are too old to go into aviation if your retirement is not fully-funded (or you have a non-aviation means of achieving that...side job, inheritance, etc).
Good plan. But at your age you will want to move along quickly so between work and training you will not have much free time. Hopefully you don't have a family?
With a little industry-timing luck you should be able to do this. Hopefully you can get a CFI job at your local airport and keep your real job. Unless you have the flexibility to travel for an MEI job you may ultimately need to buy 50-300 ME hours. Assume you will need 1500 TT.
That depends. If you can do it all online you probably can find a way (it will be really rough during airline new-hire training, that is 8-12 all-consuming weeks). As a new-hire you will be on reserve...you may very well have a lot of time on your hands but it will not be in your hometown. Unless you happen to live in a place where a lot of regionals have low seniority hubs (NY/NJ, Chicago) you will be commuting to reserve...after you account for travel that will mean 2-6 days actually home...per month.
Theoretically, yes. Majors all used to require 1000 hours turbine PIC (regional CA time) but many have lowered that to simply 1000 turbine which means FO time counts. But the reality is that turbine PIC is still the gold standard, and odds are low that you will get hired without upgrading at the regional (unless you have good internal connections). Upgrade 4-15 years, plus a couple years to build time = 6 - 17 years at a regional. Most of the bell curve will be 8-12...but unfortunately there is no guarantee that YOU won't be the guy on the far right.
This all depends on hiring demand, which could change things dramatically. My guess is that majors will have to hire (demographics, too many guys pushing age 60) but the regional business model will collapse, resulting in significant job losses over the next 10-15 years. The major hiring and regional collapse will somewhat balance each other out to the extent that folks should be able to move up the regional ranks...but that can vary wildly depending on who your employer is.
It could be a tie-breaker since you already have one, but quality flight experience always trumps advanced education. So it's not going to matter much. Also the military guys get first crack at the major jobs, and they mostly all have masters anyway. This is not to say that it might not be a bad idea to earn a marketable masters as a back-up before embarking on an aviation career (if you're young)
No. Well it might be an OK goal to keep you motivated and on track with the factors you can control...but NOT a good schedule if you are doing financial planning around this...way too much depends on industry conditions and seniority at your regional.
My guess:
- 2 years for ratings (you can compress to one if you really bust ***).
- 2 Years to get to 1500 (you can compress to one if you really bust ***).
- 0-1 years to get hired at a regional (sometimes they just don't call)
- 3-5 years as an FO (assuming you have the good fortune to pick the regional you want, and you choose one with fast upgrade times).
- 2-3 years to build TPIC (if you upgrade at first opportunity you will be a reserve captain and may have very few opportunities to actually fly your first years or two...depends on the manpower situation).
Total: 13 years to major. Seven if everything works perfectly (you bust *** and the industry timing works PERFECTLY). Ten years is the average planning number most people will tell you.
You didn't say whether you have spouse and kids...if so, you would be really going out an a limb financially. Also in order to "fast-track" yourself you will probably end up divorced with kids in therapy over why daddy hates them and likes airplanes instead. I tried the fast-track approach myself but had to apply the brakes hard so I could focus on the REAL priorities.
All in all you are very close to accurate that he COULD make captain in a major in 13 years but the freaking stars are going to have to line up pretty good for that to happen. I'm thinking more realistically it's closer to 18ish years.
12-18-2011, 08:34 PM
#30
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
Thanks for the comments. I also agree that the grass is always greener on the other side. As some of you laugh that a lawyer would want to change to a pilot, I laugh when I hear about pilots changing careers to be a lawyer.
I think what it comes down to, is unless you try it, you always think the career is better. Of course, I believe the satisfaction of going to court, representing clients, winning cases and etc is gone. While pilots still think that is a better alternative to flying. I think the traveling and flexible schedule sounds appealing. I would love to have 15 days off a month. Right now, I probably have less than 4.
Is it possible to bypass the regionals and go straight to a major? Assuming of course, you have all of your hours and etc, including ATP?
I think I could probably get 1500+ hours without a regional.
I think what it comes down to, is unless you try it, you always think the career is better. Of course, I believe the satisfaction of going to court, representing clients, winning cases and etc is gone. While pilots still think that is a better alternative to flying. I think the traveling and flexible schedule sounds appealing. I would love to have 15 days off a month. Right now, I probably have less than 4.
Is it possible to bypass the regionals and go straight to a major? Assuming of course, you have all of your hours and etc, including ATP?
I think I could probably get 1500+ hours without a regional.
I'm curious as to your "plan" to get the 1500+ hours as quickly as possible, without flying for a Regional. Also, when you first start out, either at a Major or a Regional, you will be on reserve, and nobody on reserve gets 15 days off a month.
Right now, Delta's reserves are only scheduled for 11 days off per month. If you want to be in a Junior Base, so you move up quicker, you'll be living in a crash pad somewhere in the NYC area, unless you move your home to NYC.
If you can run your law practice from there, you may be OK doing that while you are also sitting reserve, but if you have to commute to NYC, and maintain a law practice elsewhere, it's going to be hard to work both jobs. The commuting eats up a lot of your days off. Oh, and while you are on reserve, your phone keeps ringing, even at 3am.
Last edited by Timbo; 12-19-2011 at 03:42 AM.
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