ThePlane

I am sure these questions have been asked more times than can be counted. Just looking for advice to my specific situation.

I am a 39yo attorney. I am a solo practitioner, so I can be somewhat flexible in my schedule.

1. First question. Am I too old?

I found a local school that I could probably pay most of my way through with maybe a little help from loans, while I still practice law. I have committed myself to at least getting my Private Pilot license. After that, I will re-evaluate my goals. It appears I should be able to get most of my flight hours after regular business hours, so I should be able to support myself during this time.

2. I am guessing with hard work and some luck I should be hired by a regional in 2-3 years. Is this accurate?

3. I understand as the low man on the totem pole, I will work weekends and holidays. Will I still have enough free time to run my law practice? I would need 3-4 business days per week to still run my practice.

4. Is it possible to be hired by a major 2-3 years after being hired by a regional?

5. I know majors want Bachelor degrees. How much does it help to have an advanced degree? Will it matter much?

6. My goal would be to be hired by a major within 5 years. I know some say yes, others say no. Thoughts?

block30

Why do you want to fly for a pay check so badly? How little are you making as an attorney? Or how bad is your Quality of Life? I thought law school grads were scratching to find jobs, which I assumed were desirable. Can you put your attorney gig on a back burner for awhile when you are new at a regional?

I am always baffled by the folks with seemingly good careers being traded in for a flying job. I don't wish you ill, however. I do know of career changers, so your age isn't a deal breaker. Not sure about the odds of a gig at the majors for a multitude of reasons, however. I think this job is better suited to those without other professional skills already.... Not doctors, professors, attorneys, CPAs.

As a personal anecdote, I had an ATC acquaintance tell me he was thinking about leaving that for a crack at the regionals....I think American Eagle was his choice due to the low minimums. 1) Look what is happening to AE, not to mention the current status of other regionals. 2) I told him he was a damn fool to leave a good career for this job, even before the American bankruptcy...this is a very volatile industry! Why not fly your own plane for fun?

Flyhayes

1. You are never too old to learn how to fly. Where age may matter is more a question of what your goals are, and what quality of life you want for yourself by the time your aviation career is over. That being said, before you embark on a professional aviation career go ahead and get your private pilots certificate to see if you even enjoy flying. What's the point to spending large sums of money chasing a career that pays poverty wages (initially) if you don't truly have a passion for it?

2. Getting hired by the regionals isn't mearly about completing all your ratings and applying for a position at the airlines. The regional airlines will want to see that you have a minimum amount of flight time in addition to having all your qualifications. These minimums ebb and flow depending on the competition and the need for new pilots. I remember a time when most regional airlines required you to have well over 1000 hours before you could apply to them. Another time it was down to only a few hundred flight hours. Many build these hours by flight instructing. Depending of the flight student market in your area, this can be a slow going process. Or you can buy the hours you need to pad your logbook, but this is an expensive process.

3: Doubtful, you are now the airlines employee. As a pilot with low seniority you have little to say about your schedule. Also, keep in mind, that to get your coveted airline position you may have to uproot your home and move to another part of the country. Pilots tend to move around a lot during the early parts of their careers, I don't see how a law practice could handle this, unless you wanted to pass the bar in every state you move to. (The regional pilots on the board should be able to fill you in on the intricacies of regional pilot life better than I can).

4. This is not a feasible time line. There are several regional airlines out there where pilots have been Fist Officers for nearly a decade. And they still don't see the light at the end of the tunnel for upgrading to Captain, let alone making the leap to the major airlines


Hope this helps

ThePlane

To answer your first question, I am looking for quality of life. Presently I am working 8-5 Monday through Friday, and sometimes on Sunday. I look at clients of mine that work for the airline industry, and their quality of life is much better than mine.

As far as flying for a paycheck, I earn 6 figures, and would like to get back to that level as soon as possible if I make the jump.

It is possible to leave the practice for a short period of time. I do have enough business to hire someone to take my place and hopefully earn a profit to keep the practice up and running.

The biggest reason for the jump is I am tired of always having to answer the phone and never turning the clock off. Pilots have the luxury of not having to answer the phone when they are not working. A lot less stress.

ThePlane

Thanks for the feedback. In response to #4, I have read this from various other sources. If this is true, then I am probably better off staying where I am. I would hope to have a nice career before I retire.

Although, I was told by a buddy of mine that works for a major it could be much less. He advised me when I am hired by a regional to get based out of their least desirable location. He said I would shoot up the seniority list and become a captain in a short amount of time. He also advised me to do this if and when I was hired by a major. To get the biggest bang in the shortest amount of time with the airlines, he said to move to their least desirable locations.

Flyhayes

Your quality of life will suck in the beginning as a First Officer, and then again when you become a junior Captain and then again when you move to the bottom of the list at a Major. In fact, many pilots stay on as life long Captains with their regional so as to not loose their quality of life by starting over again at the bottom.

I have a feeling that your buddy at the majors might be a little removed from today's process of climbing the aviation career ladder. Much has changed in the industry because of the regional airlines.

If you want to stay at six figures, then the airlines are not where you want to go. Imagine your current quality of life and compare it to the pay scale at one of the regional airlines: Airline Pilot Central - Air Wisconsin | Regional
as a fresh First Officer (FO) you start at $23/hr if you work only the guranteed 75hrs/mo that's a whopping $1725/mo. You'd have to have an aviation addiction to put up with going from where you are now to that! Now let's assume that you are stuck as an FO for 5 years before upgrading to El Capitan, and that you stay with the company for an additional 5 years before the majors knock on your door. Now you'll be making a respectable 6,500/month as your base pay. still far from your six figures.
Once you start at the bottom of a major airline, not only does your quality of life go out the window because you are again the low man on the totem pole but your paycheck may go down to $4,368/mo as is the case with Southwest.

Just some more food for thought.

Flyhayes

On another note, a perfect way for you to disconnect from always answering the phone is to be up in the air. When you are high enough the signals won't reach you! And time moves differently when you slip the bonds of terra firma. Perhaps flying for the shear joy of flying may provide you with the escape you need from your daily grind. Take a discovery flight anyways to see if it's your cup of tea.

ThePlane

Great advice. Another option is to just be a Flight Instructor in my spare time.

Are you buying into increase in hires over the next few years? If so, will that allow guys to move into the ranks quicker.

love2av8

Im surprised no one mentioned the upcoming possible ATP rule. Of course there will be exceptions for certain schools and what not but prob not for typical pilot that just gets his ratings from the local flight school. The timeline you are talking about will encroach upon this. Are you prepared to build 1,500 hours thru instructing, banner towing, pipeline, etc?
Trust me you will if it is your passion. I am a late career changer. If you are crazy about flying and realize you truly love it, you'll push thru and do it but be wary about burning yourself out. Get your private and if you still have the bug buy a small plane and start building that time up, it will prob be cheaper than renting and you can pay a cfi directly to teach you. You are pretty much looking at about $120 an hour for a plane and $40-09 an hour for an instructor thru a school. That being said, good luck, it truly is a fun job!

rickair7777

That sort of flexibility is critical for a mid-life career changer (that or have a couple million in liquid assets)

Bottom line, no. But that depends on your goals...you're not too old to be a regional capatain or a major FO (maybe even upgrade to major CA and spend the last few years of your career sitting ready reserve in LGA at 0500 on christmas morning, if that's what you really want).

You are too old to be a wide-body international captain. You are too old to be a major captain with a good quality of life.

Most importantly you are too old to go into aviation with any expectation of getting ahead financially...your entire career will be financial damage-control.

You are too old to go into aviation if your retirement is not fully-funded (or you have a non-aviation means of achieving that...side job, inheritance, etc).

Good plan. But at your age you will want to move along quickly so between work and training you will not have much free time. Hopefully you don't have a family?

With a little industry-timing luck you should be able to do this. Hopefully you can get a CFI job at your local airport and keep your real job. Unless you have the flexibility to travel for an MEI job you may ultimately need to buy 50-300 ME hours. Assume you will need 1500 TT.

That depends. If you can do it all online you probably can find a way (it will be really rough during airline new-hire training, that is 8-12 all-consuming weeks). As a new-hire you will be on reserve...you may very well have a lot of time on your hands but it will not be in your hometown. Unless you happen to live in a place where a lot of regionals have low seniority hubs (NY/NJ, Chicago) you will be commuting to reserve...after you account for travel that will mean 2-6 days actually home...per month.


Theoretically, yes. Majors all used to require 1000 hours turbine PIC (regional CA time) but many have lowered that to simply 1000 turbine which means FO time counts. But the reality is that turbine PIC is still the gold standard, and odds are low that you will get hired without upgrading at the regional (unless you have good internal connections). Upgrade 4-15 years, plus a couple years to build time = 6 - 17 years at a regional. Most of the bell curve will be 8-12...but unfortunately there is no guarantee that YOU won't be the guy on the far right.

This all depends on hiring demand, which could change things dramatically. My guess is that majors will have to hire (demographics, too many guys pushing age 60) but the regional business model will collapse, resulting in significant job losses over the next 10-15 years. The major hiring and regional collapse will somewhat balance each other out to the extent that folks should be able to move up the regional ranks...but that can vary wildly depending on who your employer is.

It could be a tie-breaker since you already have one, but quality flight experience always trumps advanced education. So it's not going to matter much. Also the military guys get first crack at the major jobs, and they mostly all have masters anyway. This is not to say that it might not be a bad idea to earn a marketable masters as a back-up before embarking on an aviation career (if you're young)

No. Well it might be an OK goal to keep you motivated and on track with the factors you can control...but NOT a good schedule if you are doing financial planning around this...way too much depends on industry conditions and seniority at your regional.

My guess:
- 2 years for ratings (you can compress to one if you really bust ***).
- 2 Years to get to 1500 (you can compress to one if you really bust ***).
- 0-1 years to get hired at a regional (sometimes they just don't call)
- 3-5 years as an FO (assuming you have the good fortune to pick the regional you want, and you choose one with fast upgrade times).
- 2-3 years to build TPIC (if you upgrade at first opportunity you will be a reserve captain and may have very few opportunities to actually fly your first years or two...depends on the manpower situation).

Total: 13 years to major. Seven if everything works perfectly (you bust *** and the industry timing works PERFECTLY). Ten years is the average planning number most people will tell you.


You didn't say whether you have spouse and kids...if so, you would be really going out an a limb financially. Also in order to "fast-track" yourself you will probably end up divorced with kids in therapy over why daddy hates them and likes airplanes instead. I tried the fast-track approach myself but had to apply the brakes hard so I could focus on the REAL priorities.