As long as we can all be nice about it, I need some input.

I got in some minor trouble when I was younger. In the early 90's a DWAI (Driving While Ability Impaired). Not "Drunken Driving" but alcohol related nonetheless. I had two other much smaller 4th degree misdemeanors around the same time. In 2001 I left the occupation I was in based on how unfulfilled it left me feeling. I decided to be an airline pilot. I had to go back to college and do all my flight training, from scratch. I started at age 32. I did well both in college and in flight training. I never failed an FAA written, or check-ride. I graduated with honors from an aviation program. During the process, I worked 30 hours a week, so it took a longer than I'd expected. Finally in 2008 I emerged a shiny new flight instructor, right into the jaws of a ravenous "Great Recession". I was stranded as a flight instructor for almost 4 years.

Late last year I was recruited into a regional airline jet training program. I felt lucky that the airline didn't hold my distant DWAI against me. They said, "That was, what, 2 decades ago??" I felt compelled to divulge it nonetheless. A word of caution to those hoping to out-wait a DWI offense report on your background check; I was lucky I told them because it still appeared on my FBI background check 20 years later.

Training was not easy. It was probably the most difficult thing I'd ever done. At the very end, I washed out of the training program at that regional airline. It wasn't a disaster though. I learned what the word "Anchor" meant when the training staff washed my partner out half way through the sims. They said, "We can tell you're dragging an anchor, so we're going to split you two up." Two days later he was gone. I continued, but it still put me behind. I never really was able to catch up.

As of today, I'm 42 years old and over $110,000 in student loan debt. One of my three student loan lenders sent me a court summons last month. I'm being sued. I was already working against a DWAI from two decades ago. Now on my applications I have to explain that I was "washed out" too. I owned my washout at the only airline interview I've been to since. Still didn't get the call. So much about this occupation has changed since the day I decided to become an airline pilot. Chesly Sullenberger's address to congress very well summarizes it. No need to elaborate. Thundering off to pursue my occupational dreams appears to have very well destroyed my life. If I have to "do something to correct for my washout", I'm done. I'm not going to waste another year of my life flying some light charter op. as a display of punitive penance for my "training sin". I know I'm not broken. My past training record proves that. I know I would kick butt at any training course now, especially if it were on the same type. I need "fast forwards", not "move back two spaces" in my life right now, but they just don't appear to present themselves. Sorry about the violins guys, but properly illustrating my feelings is critical too, I guess.

Sorry about the length of my story. What do you suggest?

 

I'm not sure what this means. Your training partner was dragging you down? I understand that has some effect, but if you're "getting" it and he's not, why were you two viewed as a package deal? Harsh as it seems, you're there for you and only you.

At the risk of stating the obvious, you've done it the hard way, and have a long road to hoe. Are you currently flying?

I can't offer any advice because I'm not exactly sure you're asking for advice. What kind of flying have you been doing? Are you qualified to get hired at a regional? You say you're not going to fly charters as a punitive penance. Why not? I'd suggest flying anything you can fly to put food on the table.

The debt you have is going to affect you for a long time - that's the first priority.

 

I hear a lot of "Oh I was so wonderful and yet I did not get what I deserved" in this speech. Try again. You are apparently not all that wonderful and you did get what you deserved. You need to recognize that it was you alone who put you where you are now. You will also be the only one who can fix your problems, although it is always fine to ask for help as you are doing. Many of us make poor choices along the way and we admit them and get to making a solution. You made a few ill choices apparently. Start dealing with the issues you face, set some practical goals, be nice to yourself in the process, and start working on a new plan. Recognizing the problem is half of the solution. Let us know how it's going.

 

The aviation profession is not what it used to be. It has, however always been a risky proposition. Part of that risk is that training and checking is objective and variable from one examiner to another, one airline to another. The risk was easier to justify when the compensation was double what it is today. Sounds like you are on the backside of the risk curve.

Some of that risk you voluntarily and willingly accepted, the DUI. Also FYI, there are no "shades of DUI" in aviation, either it was alcohol related or it wasn't. No such thing as "DUI Light" for us. But given that it was 20 years ago, a singular event, and you have a good record since, I think it will have minimal impact. there are always going to be a few companies who "just say no" to DUI, but most should give you fair consideration. And yes, anything that get's on your FBI record will stay there (even if if it expires or gets expunged in the original jurisdiction).


Do you have SJS? If not, maybe try for GLA, GIA, Cape Air, etc. They may be somewhat more forgiving of past transgressions. You could take a quick upgrade, get your 1000 TPIC and then move on to big regional for glass/jet time if desired. If the "pilot shortage" materializes, there's a very good chance you could get hired by a major with just turboprop TPIC.

But what's your goal? Major? Jet Regional?

Looking on the bright side, Your two problems are not related to one another so they can considered separately. Two DUI's would kill you, as would two 121 training washouts.

When you talk to future employers you need to come up with a good reason as to why you failed, take full responsibility, and have a plan to avoid a repeat situation. It's possible that you really did get a bum deal, but you CANNOT use that as your excuse...the employer will assume that you are just blaming others for your own failures. Don't blame the airline, the sim, the instructors, or your sim buddy. If it really was not your fault, better make up a fictional reason why you failed that will be acceptable to an interviewer (marital trouble, sick family member, etc).

 

I see a two, maybe three potential problems here:

1) Your past "misdeeds," which will be an additional hurdle you need to overcome. The problem with that is airline interviewing and hiring is flaky at best to downright insane. Whether or not your DWAI will be a factor is solely dependent upon what loon is running the hiring program at the time. The given that the washout is more recent, I think in most cases that's going to be the bigger issue. Probably the best you can do is own any part you had in it (and probably a few you didn't) and try and impress upon future interviewers that you recognize and have address the shortcomings which caused the problem (and that's hard to do, particularly when you feel you gave it your all - what more could you have done? You'll need to think on this one quite a bit I'm guessing). Find a way to package it into a what I've learned since then and how it makes me more of an asset to your operation.

Years ago I was involved in a flight training accident as a CFI, which could have been a career ender. I've definitely had my share of lucky breaks along the way, but I also spent several years on the sidelines, still flying, while I figured out how to package that not just to sell it to an employer, but so that I truly did gain something out of a bad experience. Since then I've been hired by a 135/corporate operator, two 121 carriers (one now out of business, the other on the way - so picking airlines obviously isn't my forte'), interview and received offers from a 121 regional and a major middle eastern carrier, so hurdles CAN be overcome. Cubdriver's delivery is a bit harsh, but it's not altogether inaccurate.

2) I obviously don't know you or what issues you had with training, but be certain that you really understand what is expected. I've seen people new to the industry that don't quite understand what's expected in an airline training program. You are expected to show up for each session already knowing what you're going to do cold. Don't expect to be talked through maneuvers, procedures, ect. Have memory items down VERBATIM, so on and so forth. If you don't have those things covered, you will fall behind, and they won't bother catching you up. You may have this down - if so disregard, but I throw it out in case.

3) Probably the biggest one: It appears to me you are suffering from the biggest problem most of us do - low SA (situational awareness), aka; having blinders on, not thinking out of the box and so on.

If the only goal acceptable to you is a 121 job, then you have tremendously limited your options. I get that flying a piston twin 135 isn't what you signed up for, but ask yourself where could it lead? Many 135 jobs now pay better than the regionals do, particularly the first few years. Can you parlay that into a turbine 135 position, and then make connections from there to go to a corporate operation (where your personality and ability to fit in to the culture is more important that "past sins')? I think you need to re-evaluate the options available to you and determine which ones offer the best long term potential.

There is no doubt that at 42 you are under a very real time pressure, as a 45 year old who was recently kicked to the curb, I get that. Unless I hit the Powerball, I'll most likely never see out of this career what I expected to when I started. That said, I've done exactly that, and have made a significant career course correction which I think (hope - call me in 20 years and I'll tell you if I was right) will provide more satisfaction than where I was headed before.

Best of luck to you moving forward.

 

Lots of intelligent things said here. Thank you for all your replies thus far.

Bcrosier said, "If the only goal acceptable to you is a 121 job, then you have tremendously limited your options."

What are my goals? Huh. They used to be to fly a wide-body, int'l for a major US airline. I know with almost certainty that will never happen for me. Not because of the washout exclusively, but the type and company change overs and paycuts associated with such a climb would do me in for sure. I don't have the time anymore.

One thing I've seen is the rise of high paying contract work over-seas. I notice pay for equal experience on same "type" is about 66% higher than it is here in The States. I grew up both here and in another Western country. I don't have a wife or kids nor do I own a home here in the USA. I've never seen my "home" as the USA. I've seen my home as "Planet Earth". I'd be happy to ultimately get a contract Captain position in a EMB 190 or A320 and gross $13,000 - $17,000 a month. If I would decide to keep a residence here in the USA the computability and time-off splits on some of the contracts look appealing. Leaving the USA for good doesn't scare me one bit. In fact, it could be financially liberating.

Bcrosier said, "I've seen people new to the industry that don't quite understand what's expected in an airline training program."

I think you very well hit the nail on the head. I felt as if somewhere I'd dropped the ball of continued preparation for a career at an airline. I allowed the recession to lull me into a relaxing of my forward thought on aviation. For some time over the course of the last 3.5 years, I became a "career flight instructor" only with thoughts of being an airline pilot. I stopped "studying for the future". The FMS and FMA on the type were a complete mind-f%*!'. Very archaic. I know those were my weak spots. They are for many.

I was always able to take my time studying my way through college and getting my flight ratings. This material was the first time I'd have to know everything on their bullet fast time-tables, not mine. I studied hard and long. At one point I was even asked if I was sleeping at the training center since I was always the last one out and first one in. My wash wasn't for a lack of effort.

CubDriver Said, "You need to recognize that it was you alone who put you where you are now. You will also be the only one who can fix your problems, although it is always fine to ask for help as you are doing. Many of us make poor choices along the way and we admit them and get to making a solution."

Although I do agree with much that you wrote, I find this to be a very escapist perspective proliferated by corporatists and conservative thinkers. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but if I do understand what you're saying, you're saying that I somehow had a hand in the evaporation of opportunity in the airline pilot occupation. No, indeed management and "the unchecked free-market philosophy" own their share of my/our fate too. Did I "decide" to remain in this occupation? Sure. I did. After spending 11 years and $110,000 am I just supposed to leave the occupation I was just trained in at the slightest sign of trouble? I am now contemplating leaving, however. I don't own the fall off a 12 foot plank if corporate shows me its length first, only to blind-fold me then cut the last two feet off the end. Was I naive enough to give private America the benefit of the doubt? Yup. But the only people whose character the last 10 years impeaches are corporations.

Jughead said, "I'm not sure what this means. Your training partner was dragging you down? I understand that has some effect, but if you're "getting" it and he's not, why were you two viewed as a package deal? Harsh as it seems, you're there for you and only you."

Someone had asked earlier what my times are, so I'll start with that. I currently have 2000TT and 400 Multi. My partner had only 700TT, had never been a CFI, had never logged any time in a glass cockpit, was from a 3rd-world-nation and had no sense of urgency. Before splitting us up about half way through the sims, the instructor had been spending 3 of the 4 hours of every sim, teaching him. I sat by watching the minutes tick away. THAT'S an anchor. The training dept. fairly recognized him as one and split us up. Now, had I been strong enough, yes, I would have been able to come back from behind the power-curve. However, I was not. I own that. I think a jet transition course would have been the difference. I was never a check pilot at the flight school I worked at, but I renewed my instructor certificate on the ground of maintaining an 80%+ pass rate.

 

UPDATE: My buddy, also who failed NO check-rides to this point, passed the PC at this regional airline and then....they washed him out on LOFT. On LOFT! Something doesn't smell right at this op. Can anyone say, "3407 Syndrome"?

 

What is 3407 Syndrome?

Normally they will not wash you for failing a single training/checking event, you have to fail three but that could vary with airline.

But ANY training or checking event normally counts as a strike...failed written tests, unsat scheduled sim training session, or failed PC/LOFT. I suspect this guy had repeated a sim session or two.

 

Read up on going ex-pat first. Most every transport job will require "time on type" as a Captain. That experience is gained at a US carrier first. There are exceptions, but few and far between. EK, for example, requires FAR 121 experience before an interview. The Asian carriers mostly hire, by contract, experienced captains, the F/O positions are for locals.

The 121 bust may still hurt in the future, it's a pretty big and always has been. I know two guys that washed out of US military pilot training, they never made to an airline back in the mega-hiring years. You need to "own" that more than you do. It wasn't company's that brought you to your present position, it was you. Blaming the "anchor" or the company will NOT hack it at an interview anywhere. I conduct interviews in our Flt Dep't, so I think I can claim some authority.

GF

 

Yeah. He had. I had as well. I ate up both of my extra sims and had a written test failure. I can't believe how they'd just throw away a pilot they just poured about $25K into and got him his "type"?? The good thing in his case is that he walks away with it with his type.

I'm developing a hypothesis that, since the revelations of Colgan 3407, the regionals are loath to continue with any trainee that shows anything but astronaut-like ability during training. The last thing they want to do is explain why they continued with a trainee who showed anything less that perfection during training. We both had outstanding academic, training and safety records up to now.

My hypothesis could be wrong though.