Take the money or the dream?
08-09-2013, 09:18 PM
#1
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Take the money or the dream?
I know you guys have been asked 1000 times, so what's once more...
Should I make the leap?
I'm 33, working for an investment bank (which sucks more than a dyson), and considering getting back to the career I always wanted- yep, flying!
Besides the bank gig, I work part-time at a major carrier that starts with a "U", on the ramp, and have been there for 8 years. Before that I worked the gates for a regional, and before that I was washing Barons at a charter company. I love aviation, and I spend WAY too much time looking out my office window at the planes flying overhead, wishing I was "up there".
I know a career change would mean less money. My wife and I are both okay with that (she does well for herself, and our student loans are paid). We have no kids (yet).
Found a local place that will get me through CFII for about $40k. Meanwhile I can continue to work on the ramp to defray some costs. Do I have a decent shot at a flying career? Can I make it to a major in time to make captain for ~10 years, or am I too old? Currently working 50-60 hrs every week, so I can handle the long days.
Thanks for any and all pro-pilot opinions. I'll make sure your crew bags stay onboard...
-thekid
Should I make the leap?
I'm 33, working for an investment bank (which sucks more than a dyson), and considering getting back to the career I always wanted- yep, flying!
Besides the bank gig, I work part-time at a major carrier that starts with a "U", on the ramp, and have been there for 8 years. Before that I worked the gates for a regional, and before that I was washing Barons at a charter company. I love aviation, and I spend WAY too much time looking out my office window at the planes flying overhead, wishing I was "up there".
I know a career change would mean less money. My wife and I are both okay with that (she does well for herself, and our student loans are paid). We have no kids (yet).
Found a local place that will get me through CFII for about $40k. Meanwhile I can continue to work on the ramp to defray some costs. Do I have a decent shot at a flying career? Can I make it to a major in time to make captain for ~10 years, or am I too old? Currently working 50-60 hrs every week, so I can handle the long days.
Thanks for any and all pro-pilot opinions. I'll make sure your crew bags stay onboard...
-thekid
08-09-2013, 10:15 PM
#2
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
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Originally Posted by thekid99
Should I make the leap?
08-09-2013, 11:00 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
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Find the time to get your private pilot's certificate, maybe instrument and commercial when you have time (and your own plane). Do this on YOUR terms. If the airlines are ever really hurting as people scream over and over, you'll be able to go from regional FO to major CA in 2 years. Of course 99% of us do not believe this will happen, but if there ever is that much movement, airlines will do every and anything to entice people. In the meantime, ENJOY LIFE. That means something that you are good at, and in the off-hours you can enjoy your passions, such as flying or aviation. I'd think that running a side-gig of flying and maybe instructing, being an examiner, etc, would pay off in spades and allow you to experience aviation to the fullest.
The real problem is betting so much at this stage in your life. It's akin to going to vegas with 30 grand and hoping to walk way with 5 million. You're hoping you don't get furloughed and kicked right back to the start, you're hoping there's no downturn, you're hoping your medical holds up, and so on. While there's a "chance" you'll make it, it's not the kind of odds that most people would take. If the plane had those kind of chances of an engine quitting, a wing falling off, the fuel tank exploding, I wouldn't fly it. I'd have to have a resonable expectation it's going to work out.
To that extent, I'd question your dream, is it aviation? Is it flying? Is it being an commercial airline pilot? Is it spending all day in an airport? Is it spending all day in a beech 1900 cockpit? Is it spending all day in a 787? Is it flying into a dirt strip in the mountains? Is it doing aerobatics? Is it going on long cross country trips to see the country and even get outside of it a little? Do these things require you to be an airline pilot, or are there other ways to do them? There's a multitude of jobs and areas out there where you can work and be in aviation. And there's a plethora that will allow you to be able to own and fly your own airplane. Then there's countless ones where you get to actually fly airplanes, as a flight instructor, an advanced instructor doing aerobatics or warbirds, an aviation insurance guy, one of many local and federal government agencies that operate aircraft, using an aircraft for business in niche markets (get your own 135 certificate on the side, etc), working for cessna delivering airplanes or something similar, and so on. There are just so many opportunities and if you focus on the "I'm going to try and get into the airline business QUICK because I want to be earning $200,000/yr working 8 days a month!" you are going to have a hard time competing with all the other guys out there in the regional airlines, major airlines, 135 operators, corporate pilots, military pilots, flight instructors, and so on. So what do you do? Forge your own path. Find something you are GOOD at that earns MONEY and use that MONEY to pursue your passions without sacrificing your livelihood and quality of life. If the airlines need people bad enough, they'll come banging on doors offering full-paid pilot certificate and experience packages.
The real problem is betting so much at this stage in your life. It's akin to going to vegas with 30 grand and hoping to walk way with 5 million. You're hoping you don't get furloughed and kicked right back to the start, you're hoping there's no downturn, you're hoping your medical holds up, and so on. While there's a "chance" you'll make it, it's not the kind of odds that most people would take. If the plane had those kind of chances of an engine quitting, a wing falling off, the fuel tank exploding, I wouldn't fly it. I'd have to have a resonable expectation it's going to work out.
To that extent, I'd question your dream, is it aviation? Is it flying? Is it being an commercial airline pilot? Is it spending all day in an airport? Is it spending all day in a beech 1900 cockpit? Is it spending all day in a 787? Is it flying into a dirt strip in the mountains? Is it doing aerobatics? Is it going on long cross country trips to see the country and even get outside of it a little? Do these things require you to be an airline pilot, or are there other ways to do them? There's a multitude of jobs and areas out there where you can work and be in aviation. And there's a plethora that will allow you to be able to own and fly your own airplane. Then there's countless ones where you get to actually fly airplanes, as a flight instructor, an advanced instructor doing aerobatics or warbirds, an aviation insurance guy, one of many local and federal government agencies that operate aircraft, using an aircraft for business in niche markets (get your own 135 certificate on the side, etc), working for cessna delivering airplanes or something similar, and so on. There are just so many opportunities and if you focus on the "I'm going to try and get into the airline business QUICK because I want to be earning $200,000/yr working 8 days a month!" you are going to have a hard time competing with all the other guys out there in the regional airlines, major airlines, 135 operators, corporate pilots, military pilots, flight instructors, and so on. So what do you do? Forge your own path. Find something you are GOOD at that earns MONEY and use that MONEY to pursue your passions without sacrificing your livelihood and quality of life. If the airlines need people bad enough, they'll come banging on doors offering full-paid pilot certificate and experience packages.
Last edited by JamesNoBrakes; 08-09-2013 at 11:20 PM.
08-10-2013, 08:31 AM
#4
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Due to impending retirements you can most likely make it to a major in time to get ten years in the left seat, although you'll need to move quickly and be selective about which major you go to (ie probably not SWA).
08-11-2013, 03:39 AM
#5
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Posts: 24
It is a very tough decision especially when you mention not having kids "yet". It is always easy to say chase your dreams and the like however, that is not always doable. Will your wife be able to continue working if you do decide to have kids, will she want too? It is tough to leap at that age but if you do most factors would point to the next 5-10 years being a good time to do so. Good luck.
08-11-2013, 04:26 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 70
Look at a career in flying as more of a journey than a destination. You seem to have the goal of major airline captain for a few years leading to retirement, and you quite possibly can do that. But is it probable? There is a huge number of unseen factors along the way that can change that outcome so be flexible and enjoy the journey.
08-11-2013, 09:13 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: JAFO- First Observer
Posts: 997
Tough decision. Lots to consider. There is absolutely nothing wrong with staying in your current profession and flying for fun as a hobby!
Put your family as first priority, that is my $.02...
V/R
Put your family as first priority, that is my $.02...
V/R
08-11-2013, 10:56 PM
#9
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Hi all, thanks for the feedback. I guess my plan is, as some have suggested, to finish my private license and instrument rating, and see how that goes. My wife is on board, and plans to keep working whether we have kids or not. I am pretty focused on the airline thing, just because I was always interested in big planes, faraway destinations, etc.
On a commercial flight a couple of months ago I sat next to a deadheading captain and talked with him about my career plan. He seemed to think that if I flew my butt off and caught a break or two (no major furloughs, etc.), I could make the right seat at a major in 6-7 years.
Does this seem realistic? I know there are a lot of factors, but what would a realistic/typical timeline look like? I figure 2 years to get my ratings (I live in the upper midwest- so wx is a factor), another 2 years instructing, maybe 2-3 years flying charters, cancelled checks, etc. Then hit 1500 and start applying to regionals. Fly RJs for 5+ years, then maybe find a major? My goal here to see what a realistic career might look like for me.
On a commercial flight a couple of months ago I sat next to a deadheading captain and talked with him about my career plan. He seemed to think that if I flew my butt off and caught a break or two (no major furloughs, etc.), I could make the right seat at a major in 6-7 years.
Does this seem realistic? I know there are a lot of factors, but what would a realistic/typical timeline look like? I figure 2 years to get my ratings (I live in the upper midwest- so wx is a factor), another 2 years instructing, maybe 2-3 years flying charters, cancelled checks, etc. Then hit 1500 and start applying to regionals. Fly RJs for 5+ years, then maybe find a major? My goal here to see what a realistic career might look like for me.
08-12-2013, 07:10 AM
#10
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Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,193
Do not,
1.) under any circumstance give a flight school $40K up front (or any amount of money for that matter, for flight training. Pay as you go
2.) quit your job while working on your tickets. Being employed while you do everything will not only cover the cost, but look great on an airline application as it shows grit/motivation/drive (insert other adjectives). Plus any benefits like health you're pulling are huge.
3.) borrow any money to pay for flight training. This should need no explanation.
If after all these things are completed and you're competitive for a regional airline gig, you'll know if it's the right thing to do. And the most-important-aspect-of-all (underline this three times) is that you will be debt free and liquid when you make the leap. Don't buy a house, don't buy cars, etc. Sock all the money away. If you make the jump it won't sting too bad, because you will not be able to maintain your current standard of living on regional pay.
If you're making good money and have a wife that's fully supportive you can hit it hard on the weekends, and pepper your week with an after work (or dawn patrol) flight here and there. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to stay gainfully employed while you chase the dream.
Does this seem realistic? I know there are a lot of factors, but what would a realistic/typical timeline look like? I figure 2 years to get my ratings (I live in the upper midwest- so wx is a factor), another 2 years instructing, maybe 2-3 years flying charters, cancelled checks, etc. Then hit 1500 and start applying to regionals. Fly RJs for 5+ years, then maybe find a major? My goal here to see what a realistic career might look like for me.
No pilot in the history of aviation has ever been able to answer this question at any point, ever. Ever ever. Take that timeline and throw it right out the window. There are so many variables that you have a better chance of winning the powerball than predicting an aviation career.
This is why I emphasize so strongly that you do not quit your current career. It only takes a slight breeze to capsize the airline/aviation industry boat and still being in your current job and upwardly mobile if and when that happens is an insurance policy worth more than you can know.
1.) under any circumstance give a flight school $40K up front (or any amount of money for that matter, for flight training. Pay as you go
2.) quit your job while working on your tickets. Being employed while you do everything will not only cover the cost, but look great on an airline application as it shows grit/motivation/drive (insert other adjectives). Plus any benefits like health you're pulling are huge.
3.) borrow any money to pay for flight training. This should need no explanation.
If after all these things are completed and you're competitive for a regional airline gig, you'll know if it's the right thing to do. And the most-important-aspect-of-all (underline this three times) is that you will be debt free and liquid when you make the leap. Don't buy a house, don't buy cars, etc. Sock all the money away. If you make the jump it won't sting too bad, because you will not be able to maintain your current standard of living on regional pay.
If you're making good money and have a wife that's fully supportive you can hit it hard on the weekends, and pepper your week with an after work (or dawn patrol) flight here and there. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to stay gainfully employed while you chase the dream.
Originally Posted by thekid99
Does this seem realistic? I know there are a lot of factors, but what would a realistic/typical timeline look like? I figure 2 years to get my ratings (I live in the upper midwest- so wx is a factor), another 2 years instructing, maybe 2-3 years flying charters, cancelled checks, etc. Then hit 1500 and start applying to regionals. Fly RJs for 5+ years, then maybe find a major? My goal here to see what a realistic career might look like for me.
This is why I emphasize so strongly that you do not quit your current career. It only takes a slight breeze to capsize the airline/aviation industry boat and still being in your current job and upwardly mobile if and when that happens is an insurance policy worth more than you can know.
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