AFPete

Hello Everyone,

I'm brand new to the forum, but I’ve snooped around enough to know I can get some good advice here. So here is my situation: I'm an active duty AF Nav with a couple more years to go before I plan on punching out. I'll be 31 at that point and I currently have just a PPL with 120hrs. I have degrees in history and education, no debt, and a Post 9/11 GI Bill to use. I'm not married yet, but do have a serious girlfriend with a good career.

Although I am still over a year out from having to pull the trigger on this, the plan forming in my mind is to use the Post 9/11 for flight training (at an institution of higher learning that offers an associates - so that I can take advantage of full benefits), get a job as a flight instructor and see where life takes me. I suppose my goal is to get to a place where I am making a comfortable salary flying (50-60k) while being able to enjoy a decent schedule that allows for a good "QOL." My back-up plan is to teach high school.

As far as the follow-on question of what kind of flying I envision (part 135 vs. 121 vs. 91) I still have a lot of research to do and I realize that it is still a long way off. I think I would love instructing, and would probably be happy doing that indefinitely if I could find a way to make at least a modest income at it. The opportunities in part 91 intrigue me, but it seems like that world is mostly about who you know. The airlines scare me. Flying a regional jet around the country sounds like a fun way to earn a living, but everything I hear about the culture and lifestyle sounds awful.

Ok, enough with the soliloquy. I’ve cast a rather wide net here, but basically I’m asking those of you who have been there and done that to poke holes in my plan and tell me what you think. Is it realistic? Am I a little late to the game? What are some of the common blind spots in this pursuit? After the first couple years at a regional, if you stick with it can you expect a comfortable living and a decent QOL at a regional?

Sorry for the length, but I greatly appreciate any and all feedback.

Judge Smails

It's great that you already have a backup plan before you jump into this. Many people get into this profession without one (myself included).

As far as which route to go, that's a tough one. The each have their pro's and con's, and along the road, you'll probably figure out which one best fits your needs. I instructed for a couple of years, and spent almost 7 years at a regional, so I'll give some 121 advice.

If you go the 121 regional route, try to select a regional that has the larger RJ's, because those won't be parked anytime soon. Most importantly, select the one that's closest to home, and live in base. Not having to commute is the single biggest factor to maintaining a good quality of life. RJ schedules can be brutal, especially reserve, the last thing you want to do is stress out trying to get a jumpseat home.

As far as pay goes, you don't have to search far on this forum to find out about that. The first few years will be a struggle if you don't have any other support.

... And one more thing. No matter which route you go, try to network as much as possible. Advancing in this profession is all about who you know, mixed in with luck and timing.

tankerdude

you're under 30 and are an officer. on Monday morning, go across the street to your reserve unit and get a pilot slot. tell them you want to go to UPT tomorrow, before you hit 30. let them pay you to get your ratings/hours. this way you have another source of income, free training that is much faster, and a means to "tailor" your airline schedule with military leave. I was in your shoes four years ago. worked like a charm.

OnCenterline

Pete
I do hope that you realize that you are essentially asking for a summation of almost every thread APC—or any other online aviation forum for pilots—has ever had. That said, I’ll give you my two cents worth.
As noted above, you are money ahead with a back-up plan. A pilot that has no other skills or training is in trouble, especially if he loses his medical.
A bit on my background: I started flying in 1990, got my private in 1991, and after graduating from college in 1993, quickly pursued my ratings up to CFI so that I could teach. I was teaching by the summer of 1994, and added CFII and MEI as I went. I was hired at Comair in 1996, and stayed there for sixteen years, until the doors closed in 2012. Staying at Comair was not necessarily my plan, but it was in the back of my mind when I got hired. For a long time, it was a great company to work for before the race to the bottom at the regionals finally caught up to us.
I was lucky. I got hired at the beginning of the huge regional boom (and paid $13,000 in pay-for-training expenses for the privilege), but the trade-off was great seniority that had me in the left seat of an RJ in 2000—which was more than a year after I had the seniority to hold it. I spent 12 years as a captain, making a good living; the last several I spent as a Line Check Airman (that’s a training and evaluation pilot in the actual plane, vs. in the sim). I averaged more than $100K my last several years.
I also did a few other things on the side to supplement my income, and also to boost my resume.
When the company closed, I took a few months to spend some time with my family. In January, I went to work for another regional for a short period. I was called for an interview by the major of my choice in the spring of 2013, and I have been here since.
My experience has taught me that there are 3 fundamental rules about being a pilot for a living: it is all about timing; it is all about luck; and it is all about who you know.
Let’s talk about your questions, in no particular order.
No, you are not too old, but realize that from zero time to finding a job just as an instructor is a 9-12 month process. Going from zero time to an airline with the new rules is at least three years away, assuming you go for the CFI, get a job, and fly 700-800 hours a year and do not qualify for the restricted ATP.
In my opinion, GA is the hardest way to make a living flying. Corporate is next, and the airlines are third. The reason for corporate being second is that getting a good corporate job is hard. It’s damn hard.
General aviation is often the most fun flying, but the pay is usually lacking. A good flight school will pay you for time spent on the ground working with students (and, as such, as a student, you should expect to pay for that time). Flight instructors can be paid anywhere from a few dollars over minimum wage to more than $20, or even $30, an hour, but that’s rare. Staying busy as a CFI takes a lot of oomph on your part, and if you are willing, able and savvy enough to do a lot of your own marketing, you can do pretty well. That said, a lot of pilots hate teaching. Personally, I loved it. Outside of teaching, GA doesn’t have the jobs it used to—even traffic spotters have been replaced in a lot of locations by helicopters or remote cameras. Sky divers, banner towing, crop-dusting and sight-seeing are other avenues of making a living, though each has its own hoops, pitfalls and dangers. You might earn $20-25 thousand a year, maybe more if you can add to the operation something outside of the plane, but you likely will have no benefits, no 401(k), and a definite ceiling on income. If you build a good network, there is no telling where you may go.
Corporate flying is as varied as it gets. You might be a one-man band for the local rich guy, or you might be able to buy, borrow, or steal enough multi-engine time to get on with someone that operates a King Air or a Citation. From there, it’s a matter of networking with pilots at other corporations, with their bosses, with mechanics—you name it, you need to know them. Networking in aviation is critical. But, moving on, you may be able to work your way into a sizeable flight department and get a decent schedule, which is usually defined as not living your life tied to the ring of a cell phone 24 hours a day.
Corporate flying is a challenge largely because, unless you get on with a major corporation, you never know when you are going to work. You may be called out during a family event, a birthday, or in the middle of the night. Holidays are sketchy at best, unless it’s a major corporation where all of the execs stay home for the major holidays. You may be gone for a day or six, and you may be home every night or once a week. You are expected to find a way to fly, no matter the weather, come hell or high water. The further up the corporate chain you go, the more support you will get. In the smaller ops, you being able to go is part of what justifies having a plane in the first place.
If you nail it, corporate can be a great way to make a living. The salary can be more than $100,000, with great health care and a good 401(k).
The downside is that in times of hardship, the first thing to go for a company is often the plane. On the other hand, if you change jobs, you can often negotiate a salary that is equal to or exceeds your previous one. You don’t have to automatically take a pay cut to start over, unless you choose to do so for strategic reasons.
Generally speaking, you can expect to earn $75,000 and up for a decent corporate gig (decent being the operative word).
Now, about the airlines. Again, timing is everything. The airlines are getting started on an unprecedented boom in hiring that has never been seen in this country. To enjoy this, you need to get yourself in position to get hired by a regional. Right now, you can expect to start at $20-25,000 a year, but I personally believe that is going to go up. In any event, as an FO at a regional, using today’s numbers, you can expect to top out at $40-45,000, plus a small 401(k). You will work 15-20 days a month, and you will fly anywhere from 1-2 to 6 legs a day. You will generally overnight in small cities, but occasionally in big ones as well.
To answer your question about regional pay and quality of life, that’s a personal decision. With a spouse that is bringing home the bacon, you may well be content to stay in the right seat. More than a few regional FO’s—not many, but a few—have done it it simply for the insurance and travel benefits. As for QOL, that depends. If you live in domicile, QOL can be pretty good. If you commute, it may not be, and while on reserve, it will pretty much suck, especially if you are on reserve and commuting.
But, with the hiring now on, reserve life will be short. As to your concern that “everything [you] hear about the culture and the lifestyle sound awful,” don’t let the naysayers fool you. It is all what YOU make it. If you want to be miserable, you will be. If you want to enjoy it, you will.
The biggest problem with regionals is that they don’t control their own future. They are beholden to their major airline affiliates, and if they need to cut costs (even if they don’t need to, but are just told to), the employees are pretty convenient targets.
The comment above targeting regionals with larger RJs is germane and prudent, the truth is, they do not control their own future.
This, Pete, is where things get dicey. A lot of folks got stuck in the right seat of RJ’s the last several years, because of the change in retirement from a mandatory 60 to 65 years of age. The majors didn’t lose pilots they were supposed to, and so neither did the regionals. Guys and gals with huge student loans were forced to take pay cuts. It was easy to get bitter.
Now that the hiring has begun, so will the movement. FO’s will jump to the left seat and begin acquiring their coveted turbine pilot-in-command (TPIC) time. Right now you need at least 1500 of those turbine PIC hours to be competitive. That’s a minimum of 2 years, and more than likely 3. You simply won’t get hired with no TPIC time. If you can become a check airman, a chief pilot, or some other manager, you need to grab that opportunity. Keep in touch with your friends that go to the majors (there’s that whole networking thing again; notice a trend?).
The regionals can be tough. Some have lousy reputations (Mesa, GoJet) and some are pretty good places to work (Skywest). It’s almost impossible to put it all into words, but suffice it to say that you will come to hate reserve, and you will get very used to living out of your suitcase.
An arc to all of this is where you will live. If your current girlfriend becomes your “Missus,” the equation gets even more complicated. Chances are you are facing at least one or two moves in your future. At some point, you (or your current or future partner) will decide that you want to stay somewhere, and you will have to decide if it is worth commuting. That’s an entirely different issue, but it complicates your decision. If you go corporate, you likely have several moves in your future, because unless you are working for a fractional, commuting just isn’t an option.
If you hold on long enough to get to the majors, the payoff is terrific. The money is good, the company controls its own destiny, and you are treated well.
The truth is that flying is a great job, especially when the door to the plane is closed. When it’s open, you have to be able to filter out the rest of the B.S. and the negativity. The negativity will erode as pilots move on, but for now, it’s definitely there. But, flying is a tough way to make it, mostly because it is hard on relationships and families. There aren’t many jobs in the field that pay decently and get you home every night. For some people, that’s a deal breaker. My kids have grown up with it, and it’s all they know. They get it, but it doesn’t make it easy when I can’t be home (I’m writing this on a trip on Father’s Day). Again, I’ve been lucky: I’ve been home for Christmas for 13 years in a row, but I’ve missed plenty as well. Some have missed that 13 Christmas’ in a row. Some folks get started, get to their dream job, and realize that they hate it, for a myriad of reasons. I’ve always loved it, even when it wasn’t a lot of fun. But, I’m one of the lucky ones. I caught the front end of a huge wave of hiring—twice. Others that were equally or more qualified did not. But…I networked, and met people, and it helped.
Flying is fun, it’s challenging, and it’s a very dynamic field. No two days will ever be the same. I’ve never regretted my career choice, even when I lost my job.
I don’t know if I’ve helped you at all, but you are asking some pretty open-ended questions. But to repeat: yes, you can survive in GA if you go about it properly; you will not likely make more than $45,000 as a regional FO; you have plenty of time to do this if you so choose; QOL will depend on many factors, including how you define it; and you have plenty of “blind spots,” but there is no way to address them all adequately here, and in truth, you have can never fully appreciate them until you live them.
In short, if you want to fly for a living, you have to want it more than you want anything else or anyone else. It has to consume you, and like the rest of us, you need to have a few loose marbles.

AFPete

Thank you everyone for your substantive replies. I'm already glad I joined the forum.

badflaps

I don't know where you are, but have you looked into base aero clubs? Get you going a little sooner.

AFPete

I wish we had a flying club. And as for the Guard, the trick is getting released from active duty. That certainly won't happen prior to turning thirty. If I try to get a pilot slot with the guard in my early thirties, I'm guessing I may be fighting an uphill battle. My plan for now is to use the Post 9/11 in a couple years, but until then to fly for fun, learn as much as possible, and save up some money for the lean years ahead.

Aviator89

@OnCenterline. That was possibly the largest single post, I have ever seen. Also one of the best. Kinda makes airlines sound great and corporate not so much. (Corporate guy here, so far) But you outline the struggles pretty well. If anyone takes the time to read that dissertation, they will be happy they did.