akulahunter

Greetings! I have read through the forums and noticed a few posts that are similar or in the same realm as mine, but not quite close enough to really help...

I am retiring in Feb and looking to transition to the Airlines. I have ~1350 hours TT (not counting any specific airline mil-2-civ conversion). 1000+ of that time is in a ME Turboprob (P-3) with ~400 PIC time. I just completed my ATP written and have a graduate degree (MBA).

My short term plan is to fly 20-25 hours in the next couple of months and complete my ATP Practical in early October.

My questions are these:
(1) What is the best/easiest route to one of the big guys?
(2) Should I hold out for a larger airline or go through a regional to build time?
(3) Is it worth it for me to use my GI Bill to: (a) build ME TT or (b) go through a company like HP to get a 73 type?
(4) What is a realistic expectation for timeframe to get a job with one of the legacy/majors?
(5) If a regional is needed, what is a realistic timeframe for hire?

Thank you for the assistance!

Packrat

You're pretty low time for a major. Check your PMs if you can.

galaxy flyer

How did you manage to only have 1350 hours? You might need to go regional for a year or two. That's low time for a career USN pilot.

GF

akulahunter

Prior enlisted time (~12 years), fleet flying tour, shore tour, ship tour, 49%/31% promotion rate in platform, retire...

ERJF15

That's about the same TT I had when I got off of AD. I got out as an E6 and went straight into the regionals. Did a ton of networking for the past 6.5 years and now I have 2 overnights left before I move on to a Legacy.

OnCenterline

This is just my personal summation, and some may disagree, but having seen this before, it's what I can pass along:

1. What is the best/easiest route to one of the big guys? Go to a regional or big-airplane ACMI cargo carrier, or Allegiant (if you live in or near one of their domiciles; the trips are 95% out-and-backs, so you can't commute). You don't have any 121 time, and you will get there faster with 121 time. Plus, the airlines want to see not just currency, but jet currency if possible.

2. Should I hold out for a larger airline or go through a regional to build time? Apply to both, but go to a regional if you haven't been in a turbine for more than 3 months. Plus, as you mentioned, you need to build time, especially if you only have 400 PIC. One exception is jetBlue. They would likely take you in a second.

3. Is it worth it for me to use my GI Bill to: (a) build ME TT or (b) go through a company like HP to get a 73 type? Don't burn the GI Bill yet. I'd wait on the 73 type until you have 1,000 total PIC. The only carrier you need the 73 type for is SWA, and they won't look at you with such low PIC time. As you get close to 1,000-1,500 hours, go get it. Other majors may see that type and assume you really want to go to SWA. Don't give them that ammunition (esp. jetBlue and Allegiant).

4. What is a realistic expectation for timeframe to get a job with one of the legacy/majors? You might get lucky, being ex-military. Delta would be your best bet, but I don't know if your low PIC time will hurt. The fact that it's P-3 doesn't help, but doesn't necessarily hurt. United would be right behind Delta, but they are going gang-busters right now with highly qualified regional captains.

5. If a regional is needed, what is a realistic timeframe for hire? As far as getting hired by a regional, some are hiring on the phone. If your apps are in and accurate, you could be in class in a week.

In sum: I'd go to a regional (try Allegiant first, as they fly main-line equipment), and get some 121 time, maybe some management time (check airman, chief pilot, sim instructor, etc.), and get your PIC time up as much as possible, as fast as possible. To upgrade quickly, you will likely have to go to a lesser-tier or smaller regional (PSA, TSA, Silver) and avoid the larger ones with much longer upgrade times (this makes Allegiant a tough choice: you get the experience in a larger mainline-sized plane, and get paid more, but you're several years from an upgrade).

If you get on with an ACMI carrier like Atlas or Kalitta, the PIC time is nowhere near as important, because of the overall experience (international, some dangerous places, crazy schedules, etc.), which tells the majors you can--and will--do just about anything.

At the same time, start building a network of guys and gals at the regionals and the majors, and keep applying to the majors. You're going to learn that this is a very fickle business, and there isn't always a lot of rhyme or reason to it, so approach each job/job offer as though it is the last one you will ever get.

Good luck!

mexipilot84

As much as it sucks maybe go to a regional where you could be home based to build some 121 time. Lots of military pilots that got off AD that haven't been able to bridge to the majors yet. At least you stay current and build more total time to help your experience. Military + 121 experience could help. It used to be easy for ex military to just go to the majors. Seems it happens less and less instantly now a days with the way they're hiring right now. I could be wrong though.

akulahunter

Thanks Centerline. So with the assumption (fact?) that I will need to go to the regionals to build time and 121 experience, what is the best route?

I have read (a lot!) on here the last few days (great resource btw) and it seems that the sky is falling. Everyone is miserable or their company is about to fail. If the company isnt going out of business yesterday, then they make you work in a 'draconian' environment. What is the no BS lay of the land?

My complete noob/outsider view is this...

(1) Go with someone like Endeavor/Envoy who have a somewhat defined route the the legacies. (But I havent read a single good thing about them.)

(2) Try to get on with one of the 'higher' paying/larger regionals (SkyW, XJT, Wisc) and 'hope' to get a call from a legacy/large national.

or

(3) Try to get on with a smaller regional (PSA, Silver, etc) and hope they dont fail the day after I get on?

It's hard to see through all of the arguing back and forth to see what a solid route would be. Any suggestions out there?

SeamusTheHound

Everything Centerline said seems spot on. Don't burn the GI Bill $ until you have a couple thousand hours of regional time and are ready to put a 737 type to use.

Another consideration: Since you are retiring, you may possibly be "footloose" enough to go fly a short contract at a foreign carrier. Go see somewhere interesting, make some money and get your experience all at once. If your personal situation is right, it's not a bad option.

One final note (and piece of advice): As you swim your way upstream, you will not be alone. Plenty of other fishies are working hard to accomplish the same goal as you. My advice is to build a genuine network of professional peers. Don't ****** anyone over or burn bridges for short-term gain. This industry is surprisingly small, and you will run into the same folks over and over. One day you might be on one side of the oak desk; next day the tables are turned. If you think you can be a go-it-alone maverick, then you are probably mistaken or are selling yourself short. Some of my best experiences in aviation have been helping aspiring pilots, often relative strangers, get ahead. Don't worry - it comes back in spades!

Your experience sounds fine and you will move ahead quicker than you think, so enjoy the ride!

Best of luck.

OnCenterline

You have to understand that the misery at the regionals right now is largely due to the change in mandatory retirement from 60 to 65, which set back career progression for everyone, but it really screwed the regional FOs. Some of them have been in the right seat of an RJ for 10 years, and maxed out at pay for at least 4, if not 6. Now that the age 65 rule is in full swing, movement is beginning.

That said, a number of regional pilots (captains, mostly) are lifers, either by design (they make a comfortable living, usually around $100-120,000 or they're an FO married to a bacon-home-bringer, with a good schedule, family life, minimal-to-no commute) or by default (they either never got a degree or have reached the point in life where they aren't willing to start over). This is especially true at Skywest and at the senior half of ExpressJet. But, you won't get called to the majors as a regional FO. There are too many highly experienced captains to choose from.

That said, there are options. TSA has some quick upgrades, but that could change. PSA is getting a ton of planes, so getting in now is good. PSA and Silver aren't going to fail that quickly. If I was in your shoes, I'd aim for jetBlue and Allegiant first, and then the smaller RJ operators next (in hopes of some fast movement), followed by the larger RJ operators, with the understanding that you may need to make it a short stay, followed by a lateral move to a quicker upgrade...but, beware, chasing upgrades is risky.

There's been a lot of discussion about the Endeavor-to-Delta deal. The truth is, the jury is still out. My guess is that the program is legit. But, here's the problem: the interview is conducted by Delta HR people. If you get in, great! BUT--and this is huge--you face the possibility that will NEVER get another interview with Delta. That should give you pause, especially if you have not had time to do a really thorough interview prep.

As for Envoy, AMR has announced that they will be shut down. I wouldn't go there.

As for work environments, life on reserve at all of the regionals is pretty lousy, and at a few, it is downright awful. Hopefully it will be short lived due to hiring. "Draconian" is a bit relative, and a matter of personal perspective, but there is a definite difference between the way the regionals treat their people and the way the majors do.

The most important thing is to do what is best for "Me, Inc." Unfortunately, what you read on here about a lack of loyalty from the companies to the employees is true.