SWA or AA
12-17-2015, 12:58 PM
#21
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,796
The mythos that exists around SW - while it may have been true at one time - just doesn't exist today. It is just another airline with the same labor/management drama that exists at every other airline.
Trips are not commutable, so if you intend to commute I would definitely look elsewhere. The SW CBA may have at one time offered industry leading flexibility, but today they lag the industry due to the fact that you can not drop trips, and trading with the company is extremely limited due to lack of reserve coverage and duty-to-cover limits. Trading with other pilots is available, but if you are junior not many will want to trade with you or take your trip.
Major contractual deficiencies exist in little areas like bidding for training (you can't), vacation (senior guys bid all of the desirable weeks and use them as currency to trade for what they want), crew meals (none even on transcontinental trips or international turns), parking (none), uniforms (none), etc.
Vacation overlap is one positive area. Trips that touch vacation are dropped, often with partial pay. It's easy to create three weeks of vacation from one.
Do your research and make the best business decision you can with the information that you have. Don't decide based on some romantic fantasy about "Herb's airline". This isn't Herb's airline anymore.
Way better than any regional, don't get me wrong. Love my job, love my coworkers, but if AA called I'd be hard pressed not to go. (And I was formerly a USAir furloughed guy, so it pains me to say that!)
Trips are not commutable, so if you intend to commute I would definitely look elsewhere. The SW CBA may have at one time offered industry leading flexibility, but today they lag the industry due to the fact that you can not drop trips, and trading with the company is extremely limited due to lack of reserve coverage and duty-to-cover limits. Trading with other pilots is available, but if you are junior not many will want to trade with you or take your trip.
Major contractual deficiencies exist in little areas like bidding for training (you can't), vacation (senior guys bid all of the desirable weeks and use them as currency to trade for what they want), crew meals (none even on transcontinental trips or international turns), parking (none), uniforms (none), etc.
Vacation overlap is one positive area. Trips that touch vacation are dropped, often with partial pay. It's easy to create three weeks of vacation from one.
Do your research and make the best business decision you can with the information that you have. Don't decide based on some romantic fantasy about "Herb's airline". This isn't Herb's airline anymore.
Way better than any regional, don't get me wrong. Love my job, love my coworkers, but if AA called I'd be hard pressed not to go. (And I was formerly a USAir furloughed guy, so it pains me to say that!)
12-17-2015, 01:00 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: CA
Posts: 1,027
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
The mythos that exists around SW - while it may have been true at one time - just doesn't exist today. It is just another airline with the same labor/management drama that exists at every other airline.
Trips are not commutable, so if you intend to commute I would definitely look elsewhere. The SW CBA may have at one time offered industry leading flexibility, but today they lag the industry due to the fact that you can not drop trips, and trading with the company is extremely limited due to lack of reserve coverage and duty-to-cover limits. Trading with other pilots is available, but if you are junior not many will want to trade with you or take your trip.
Major contractual deficiencies exist in little areas like bidding for training (you can't), vacation (senior guys bid all of the desirable weeks and use them as currency to trade for what they want), crew meals (none even on transcontinental trips or international turns), parking (none), uniforms (none), etc.
Vacation overlap is one positive area. Trips that touch vacation are dropped, often with partial pay. It's easy to create three weeks of vacation from one.
Do your research and make the best business decision you can with the information that you have. Don't decide based on some romantic fantasy about "Herb's airline". This isn't Herb's airline anymore.
Way better than any regional, don't get me wrong. Love my job, love my coworkers, but if AA called I'd be hard pressed not to go. (And I was formerly a USAir furloughed guy, so it pains me to say that!)
Trips are not commutable, so if you intend to commute I would definitely look elsewhere. The SW CBA may have at one time offered industry leading flexibility, but today they lag the industry due to the fact that you can not drop trips, and trading with the company is extremely limited due to lack of reserve coverage and duty-to-cover limits. Trading with other pilots is available, but if you are junior not many will want to trade with you or take your trip.
Major contractual deficiencies exist in little areas like bidding for training (you can't), vacation (senior guys bid all of the desirable weeks and use them as currency to trade for what they want), crew meals (none even on transcontinental trips or international turns), parking (none), uniforms (none), etc.
Vacation overlap is one positive area. Trips that touch vacation are dropped, often with partial pay. It's easy to create three weeks of vacation from one.
Do your research and make the best business decision you can with the information that you have. Don't decide based on some romantic fantasy about "Herb's airline". This isn't Herb's airline anymore.
Way better than any regional, don't get me wrong. Love my job, love my coworkers, but if AA called I'd be hard pressed not to go. (And I was formerly a USAir furloughed guy, so it pains me to say that!)
12-17-2015, 01:09 PM
#24
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,137
Originally Posted by say again
Relax, Mr CRM. It's the same **** over and over on here! Just do a little research and come up with some answers. My reasons for choosing an airline are different than others. If it was my choice, I'd pick AA because of the bases and pay. Is that important to him?
12-17-2015, 01:15 PM
#25
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by fishforfun
SW, short sighted answer says AA but the history of them is terrible, and they are bound to repeat it. Unless you live in a domicile of one I would go with SW.
This industry shows that when the airline is growing and people are getting paid morale is there. When there is shrinkage or wage cuts the morale goes right along with it.
Your dads Swa vs Aa experience may not be the same as this generation, could be better could be worse.
12-17-2015, 01:29 PM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Legacy FO, T-38 IP
Posts: 56
AA: Thousands of retirements in the next decade plus. 787s, 777s, 767s, A330s. You and your family can non-rev/vacation all over the globe (free airfare).
SWA: No where near as many proportional retirements. 737s. Non-rev to Flint Michigan.
SWA: No where near as many proportional retirements. 737s. Non-rev to Flint Michigan.
12-17-2015, 02:35 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by Merle Dixon
AA: Thousands of retirements in the next decade plus. 787s, 777s, 767s, A330s. You and your family can non-rev/vacation all over the globe (free airfare).
SWA: No where near as many proportional retirements. 737s. Non-rev to Flint Michigan.
SWA: No where near as many proportional retirements. 737s. Non-rev to Flint Michigan.
12-17-2015, 03:52 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 392
AA without a doubt.
At the legacy I work for I've been based all over the world, flown wide bodies into London, flown RNP approaches to a 5,000 foot runway in the pacific islands, done a day turn to Narita, had a 30 hour layover in Tulsa, non-revved to Europe for a two week vacation etc etc etc.
I often think to myself, when I strap in my 737, if I worked at Southwest I'd be saying hello to the rest of my career.
AA hands down if only for the variety. I'd go crazy sitting in a 737 for 30 years.
At the legacy I work for I've been based all over the world, flown wide bodies into London, flown RNP approaches to a 5,000 foot runway in the pacific islands, done a day turn to Narita, had a 30 hour layover in Tulsa, non-revved to Europe for a two week vacation etc etc etc.
I often think to myself, when I strap in my 737, if I worked at Southwest I'd be saying hello to the rest of my career.
AA hands down if only for the variety. I'd go crazy sitting in a 737 for 30 years.
12-17-2015, 06:00 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 253
I worked at American Eagle before coming to SW.
Any moron basing the decision on how fast you will upgrade in 10 years is just stupid. American tends to hire right up to the point they furlough. There were people in class that just got hired both time AA furloughed. When they were half the size they are now they furloughed 2,500 pilots that are just now making it back after how many years? Just think the next time they furlough how many it will be and will you be far enough from the bottom to make the cut.
Basing your decision on when you will upgrade in 10 years is a fools errand as that is a moving target. Stick with the stuff that is known. If like people said you desire wide bodies or more international flying then go with AA. But to base your decision on the possibilities of the upgrades that may happen in the future is ludicrous considering the past history of how AA has grown then shrunk.
Any moron basing the decision on how fast you will upgrade in 10 years is just stupid. American tends to hire right up to the point they furlough. There were people in class that just got hired both time AA furloughed. When they were half the size they are now they furloughed 2,500 pilots that are just now making it back after how many years? Just think the next time they furlough how many it will be and will you be far enough from the bottom to make the cut.
Basing your decision on when you will upgrade in 10 years is a fools errand as that is a moving target. Stick with the stuff that is known. If like people said you desire wide bodies or more international flying then go with AA. But to base your decision on the possibilities of the upgrades that may happen in the future is ludicrous considering the past history of how AA has grown then shrunk.
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