The PIC/SIC Resume Dilemma
12-07-2016, 08:55 PM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: ATP G280
Posts: 10
The PIC/SIC Resume Dilemma
Hello Everyone,
Concerning airline resumes.
Let's say Pilot A & Pilot B are both ATP PIC Typed. Pilot A was hired as CA while Pilot B was hired as FO. Both operate the aircraft part 91.
Now, as far as a hiring airline is concerned, should Pilot B (hired on as FO) log his/her time flying left seat as sole manipulator of controls (i.e. PIC in accordance with part 61) given that he/she was not the CA/individual signing for the aircraft on his/her resume as PIC time?
Or should Pilot B log all time as SIC on resume because he/she was not the CA/individual signing for the aircraft?
Thanks.
P.S. Sorry to add yet another one of these to the forum but hopefully it will aid others.
Concerning airline resumes.
Let's say Pilot A & Pilot B are both ATP PIC Typed. Pilot A was hired as CA while Pilot B was hired as FO. Both operate the aircraft part 91.
Now, as far as a hiring airline is concerned, should Pilot B (hired on as FO) log his/her time flying left seat as sole manipulator of controls (i.e. PIC in accordance with part 61) given that he/she was not the CA/individual signing for the aircraft on his/her resume as PIC time?
Or should Pilot B log all time as SIC on resume because he/she was not the CA/individual signing for the aircraft?
Thanks.
P.S. Sorry to add yet another one of these to the forum but hopefully it will aid others.
12-07-2016, 09:02 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,897
As far as airline hiring is concerned- I've personally been advised to be conservative and only log PIC of record vice PIC of record as well as sole manipulator time.
So In your scenario- Pilot B= All SIC time
I do know people who totally disregard that though but it's a gamble. I've been told of episodes where the logbook doesn't pass the sniff test for a person and they don't get the job.
So In your scenario- Pilot B= All SIC time
I do know people who totally disregard that though but it's a gamble. I've been told of episodes where the logbook doesn't pass the sniff test for a person and they don't get the job.
12-08-2016, 02:09 AM
#4
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,006
If you log in accordance with 14 CFR 61.51, sole manipulator is PIC if you're rated.
I've never heard of an airline that didn't specify that for their purposes of accounting flight time, only time as the actual PIC is to be counted.
I've never heard of an airline that didn't specify that for their purposes of accounting flight time, only time as the actual PIC is to be counted.
12-08-2016, 02:55 AM
#5
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,511
As others have mentioned, airlines generally want Part 1 PIC time for candidates.
As a former Pt. 91 Chief Pilot, I would personally log both Part 1 and Part 61 TPIC, and use whichever a given airline application calls for...assuming your Part 61 TPIC is flown from the command (left) seat. Part 61 TPIC is useful for many bizav jobs (people that understand the crewing dynamic is somewhat different than the 121 world) as well as bizav insurance documents.
As a former Pt. 91 Chief Pilot, I would personally log both Part 1 and Part 61 TPIC, and use whichever a given airline application calls for...assuming your Part 61 TPIC is flown from the command (left) seat. Part 61 TPIC is useful for many bizav jobs (people that understand the crewing dynamic is somewhat different than the 121 world) as well as bizav insurance documents.
12-08-2016, 05:05 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
As others have mentioned, airlines generally want Part 1 PIC time for candidates.
As a former Pt. 91 Chief Pilot, I would personally log both Part 1 and Part 61 TPIC, and use whichever a given airline application calls for...assuming your Part 61 TPIC is flown from the command (left) seat. Part 61 TPIC is useful for many bizav jobs (people that understand the crewing dynamic is somewhat different than the 121 world) as well as bizav insurance documents.
As a former Pt. 91 Chief Pilot, I would personally log both Part 1 and Part 61 TPIC, and use whichever a given airline application calls for...assuming your Part 61 TPIC is flown from the command (left) seat. Part 61 TPIC is useful for many bizav jobs (people that understand the crewing dynamic is somewhat different than the 121 world) as well as bizav insurance documents.
12-08-2016, 05:38 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: JAFO- First Observer
Posts: 997
Log your time i/a/w 14 CFR, but be ready to explain and substantiate to an airline interviewer whether you were ultimately responsible as the PIC:
-Was Your name listed on the FAA Flight Plan as the PIC?
-Was Your name listed as the PIC on the aircraft log?
-Was Your name listed as PIC on the flight release (if applicable)?
-Are there other company documents which indicate the PIC
designation for each flight (trip sheets, payroll, etc)?
There is only (1) PIC designated for a given flight.
-Was Your name listed on the FAA Flight Plan as the PIC?
-Was Your name listed as the PIC on the aircraft log?
-Was Your name listed as PIC on the flight release (if applicable)?
-Are there other company documents which indicate the PIC
designation for each flight (trip sheets, payroll, etc)?
There is only (1) PIC designated for a given flight.
12-12-2016, 05:17 PM
#9
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,247
You can log sole manipulator PIC if you like but you had better use a separate column. If you mix it with real PIC, airline employers might consider that fraud.
Airline's interest in PIC is all about judgement and command, not whose turn it was to land.
Airline's interest in PIC is all about judgement and command, not whose turn it was to land.
01-15-2017, 06:23 PM
#10
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Resume/Cover Letter Creation and Review
Posts: 15
The airlines are only going to consider the FAR Part 1.1 definition of PIC, which is the "final authority" definition. Several of our consultants wrestled with this issue coming from the corporate world and in the end, it is FAR 1.1 that counts.
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