AUS_ATC

FlyerJosh,

NASA reports? Oh yea baby! Several of us have been very active with reporting sleep/rest issues involving the new schedule. Sleep studies relating to shift work are all over the Inernet. The Air Force, NASA and the FAA have all completed studies on shift work, yet the FAA at MEM has assigned us the most rigorous schedule imaginable.

I went home one night after a 1300 - 2100 shift and was unable to sleep. My schedule called for me to report for duty at 0545 the next morning. You don't need to kick off your shoes and count on your toes to figure out that this is only 8.75 hours between the end of one shift and the start of the next shift. Subtract some time to drive to/from work; grab a bite to eat before/after work; shower and walk the dog... and under the best of circumstances, I could only hope to obtain 5 or 6 hours of rest before getting up and coming to work for the day shift.

Anyway, after sitting in bed until 0400, I finally called the Supervisor at work and REQUESTED Sick Leave. The Supervisor asked what the problem was, and I explained that I had not been able to obtain any sleep the night before, and that I was unfit for duty. The Supervisor informed me that "lack of sleep does not justify or qualify for sick leave."

MEM_ATC

rvr350

That's too bad... Sounds like they work you guys to the bone as well, just like another regional that base in MEM

But then you can't just flip the Autopilot on and do your own business... Just let you guys know, without you guys watching our every move, we'd be all on the ground. Keep up the good fight!

Overnitefr8

We don't think you're whining. We have some schedules at FedEx where we have to switch from night to day to night and sometimes back to day. The body can't adjust that fast. I agree with Josh. Send in a NASA ASRS.

RedeyeAV8r

I'll give you 4 quick ones.

1. The Jumpseat issue a few years back.

2. The MD-10 accident just Dec 2003. Capt and Check Airman doing what he was told to do........

3. The MD-11 crew in SFS who refused to fly in a typhoon 1n 1999 and were fired. ACP M.B in OAK , ACP BK in IND and ACP JS/BS in EWR.

Forget those did you?

FlyerJosh

MEM_ATC,

I know that the regs don't require you to have any FAA Medical certifications (which for the life of me I don't understand), but whatever... Does facility or FAA policy require you to hold a current class two or class 3 medical certificate?

SikPilot

MEM_ATC,

What would happen if you disregarded what the supervisor said and did what needed to be done to keep things legal?

Thanks

pilot141

How about the big "F" word - Fatigue.

After the AA MD-80 accident in Little Rock and the subsequent investigation flight crews got the famous "Whitlow interpretation" regarding fatigue. (Basically a look-back provision).

Most guys are hesitant to actually make the call, but if you just can't get the rest (noisy hotel room, swapping from day to night and back) then you NEED to say you are fatigued. If you "gut it out" you are only placing yourself and your fellow crewmembers at risk.

It has to be the same with a controller. I don't want to fly with someone who is falling asleep at the controls, and I don't want to be vectored by a controller who is fighting to stay awake. I know you are at the mercy of the schedule, but I think the NTSB would be interested in the fatigue level of controllers on that last night of work.

People had to die before the FAA took pilot domestic rest limits seriously; do we have to have people die before they treat controllers the same way?

Keep up the good fight MEM_ATC; I just hope that someone wakes up to what is going on before we bend some metal or hurt people.

AUS_ATC

FlyerJosh,

Air Traffic Controllers are required to have an FAA Medical Certificate. Depending out our age, we will visit the local Flight Surgeon every year or two years. I believe that ours is considered a Class II Medical.

MEM_ATC

FlyerJosh

MEM,

If that's that case and you are required to hold a certificate, there is probably something in the same regulation that REQUIRES you to self determine whether you are fit to exercise the rights of your medical and ATC certificate. If you deem that you are unfit (and as a result call in sick), and a supervisor gives you grief about it, the supervisor is in violation of FEDERAL REGULATIONS.

Period. End of story. Of course nothings that simple, but it might give you more grounds to stand on with fatigued calls.

AUS_ATC

SikPilot,

The quick answer to this question is INSUBORDINATION, and that is grounds for immediate removal from the FAA.

FAA Management will advise Controllers to carry out any order that is given by a Supervisor or Operations Manager. Every time that I've asked a NATCA Officer this question, I have been advised to carry out the order and then talk about it or file a grievance later. We also have an Article in our Collective Bargaining Agreement that can be invoked under situations where a professional disagreement exists between the worker and a member of management. I'm not sure how that Article would work under the current FAA leadership.

I was working at SDF years ago when a BE58 took off from RWY 19 and lost an engine immediately after departure. This took place during the middle of a UPS outbound. The BE58 pilot said that he wanted to make an immediate tear-drop turn back to RWY 01 and land. I immediately canceled the takeoff clearance of a DAL B727... instructed a UPS B757 to exit the runway that he'd just received TIPH instrictions for... and cleared the BE58 to land RWY 01.

The Tower Supervisor ordered me to circle the BE58 to RWY 29 so as to not disrupt the UPS outbound. Being young, dumb and foolish -- I told the Supervisor to go pound sand.

After the BE58 landed, I was immediately relieved of my duties in the Tower Cab and instructed to report to the Air Traffic Manager's office. The ATM asked me what happened. He asked the Supervisor what happened. I was then informed that I had been insubordinate to the Supervisor and that I could be terminated. The ATM told me that I had made the right decision in this instance, but to never disobey an order from a Supervisor again.

If we go against an order from FAA Management, we are walking along dangerous ground.

MEM_ATC