CTRCommander

I'm "legacy" been taking it in the rear here since before you probably soloed. Just because I'm use to it doesn't mean I enjoy it.

Just ask a small statured man that has served hard time. Same thing but probably less painful because it doesn't hurt your family.






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midnightshuttle

Legacy guys here have and WILL rollover as a beaten stray. I hear you guys complaining about the Capital merger but thats probably the only thing thats going to save you from yourselves along with new talent

Im going to use a direct quote of senior ATI captain (these are exact)

"If anyone does sick or fatigue calls during peak its going to do nothing but make Amazon mad. It won't hurt Hete. Amazon is going to remember that. If we keep flying like we've done they'll buy us"

Capital capt

"Those #####r ######s are ######g us again just like the ATSG and ex-ATA takeover. We need to shut this ######g ###t down. See that guy over there Im paying his m###########g salary"

New Upgrade

"2 contracts in 20 years and both were concessionary. If we don't do something they may have us paying to work here. This is going to bring the industry down if WE don't step up on contracts & elections"



Ok ATI FO's are going to know exactly who I'm speaking of and probably LTAO right now.

CTRCommander

/\
|________yep




Hey did anyone see that video today on Amazon about how they have a fleet of airplanes....and they said line a 15minute turn wtf ?






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wjcandee

Was that one of the ones that various media filmed in front of the Atlas aircraft at SEA? They were on Bloomberg, CNBC, local media, and on and on, in advance of Prime Day, and I watched a few on the computer.

The misinformation conveyed was staggering. It appeared that they were furnished with a lot of background information, but what they did with it produced a result not unlike what happened when we played "telephone" in 4th grade. Yikes. Glad I don't make investments based on what's on the financial channels...

(Those 15 minute turns must be at ABE when you arrive and are told
that the PAJs won't be ready until tomorrow... )

WTFover

Not ALL flights. DFW-CVG on Monday was 4+27 late due to no Captain.

motorclutch

I wonder if FEDEX or UPS have these problems? Its not event 4th quarter yet.

CTRCommander

No this was like and inside look at Prime Day

I did the the one you mentioned after you brought it up. Yep, media embellishment, it's amazing. Unfortunately the state of our country.


Hey your a labor law minded kinda guy how about an opinion.

When midnightshuttle isn't dogging me he made a good point or two.

1)ATSG union corruption has been pretty blatant especially on the capital side. Why didn't alpa at least look into it, aren't they obligated to?

2)This Christmas is gonna be rough. It's a fact, talk has already started tempers have gone past boiling. Sick or fatigue etc will run rampid throughout. With all three airlines participating it will cause major disruptions and will surely make national news. Labor action wise, is it still a labor action if not union directed or not organized? About impossible to prove just people acting on free will and let's face it fatigue is a no questions asked show stopper.

3) Hazard pay, I can't openly discuss much of this due to the fact I was one of the crew members that's consulted with he law firm that represented vision out of FL. Lawyers dad had actually flown for vision. That was an amazing case that had gone stagnant until they hit a lucky break. Our union wouldn't act so we started looking into it ourselves. As to date about 40 FOIA request have been made. Is it true in regards to a civil matter that there is no statute of limitations? Also a company may not send an employee into an active war zone unless they are advised of the dangers and go under their own will with a choice. We were never offered such nor was it a condition of my initial employment. i.e I as a Walmart manager couldn't send my greeter to Afghanistan one morning and firing him if he refused.


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midnightshuttle

I do not.

You and your minions take over my threads.

WJ a lawyer?


1)yes
2)you'd have to put a court order out for all the cell records. Not going to happen
3)Hard call as its up to the States individual labor laws, none which I know address a war zone. Thats a tough one. Hazard pay civil matter who knows

wjcandee

I'm a little hesitant to (1) post a legal opinion on here; and (2) weigh in on something that the union lawyers for both ALPA and IBT have a lot of experience with, including practical nuances.

That said, I think that it's important to recognize that "the law" is more flexible than most people realize, and is applied by humans who are both fallible and subject to being influenced by the world's crappiest arguments if delivered well. And there is the issue of "What does the law, as interpreted by the courts, strictly say?" versus "What is the Court going to do?" I am certainly convinced after 30 years of intense litigation practice that judges really do try to do "the right thing", but what "the right thing" is necessarily varies based upon the life experience of the particular jurist as well as the practical situation on the ground. Probably a preponderance of judges are unwilling to be the guy that everybody in America knows caused Johnny not to get his fire truck for Christmas, even if it might uphold some principle (what lawyers call "balancing the equities"); and they're often hacked off that the parties choose to dump a high-stakes dispute in their lap rather than being flexible enough to try to resolve it themselves. As an example, media stories of "Chaos In The Airports!!!" were behind the thinking of most judges who initially enjoined Trump's travel order. There just aren't enough tourists from Yemen and Somalia to cause chaos in any US airport, but the ingenious use of media by immigration activists allowed them to create a perceived need for immediate action to restore order. And "restoring order" is what a lot of judges might think is the "right thing" to do.

I can also say that on the sickout issue, there is a lot of nuance, and most judges are going to look at it very pragmatically. What I mean is that there certainly are cases that say, essentially, that if a person is legally-entitled individually to do something, it doesn't become something enjoinable just because a lot of individuals do that thing at the same time. On the other hand, the concept isn't limitless. The fact that a lot of individuals do something at the same time is necessarily some evidence of at least tacit collusion, particularly if it suddenly happens at an important time, and collective activity is governed by the contract and law. But where the union organization itself actually works contrary to law and rulings, even implicitly, many Federal judges will be intolerant and aggressive. Judge Joe Kendall's famous line in the AA sickout case about the union's assets fitting in the glovebox of a Piper Cub when he was done with them was probably driven by the fact that although the union told its guys to go back to work after Judge Kendall enjoined the sickout, it also said stuff like, "Of course, nobody but you knows whether you're fit to work," which the judge read as an effort to undermine his order.

The RLA was designed, in a different era, literally to try to prevent bloodshed and to support legal collective bargaining activity, but not to the point that commerce would too-easily be held hostage. So it recognizes your biggest cudgel -- because anybody can see what your biggest cudgel is -- but tries to keep it from being used against innocent women and children rather than just against combatants. There is a lot of collateral damage on both sides when these things blow up, and the fact that one side or the other is willing to die for the cause doesn't necessarily mean that Joe Citizen should have to take a bullet.

I think there are really-talented lawyers involved on both sides here, and they are probably in the best position to advise what is likely to succeed in court and what isn't (although a lot of smart lawyers do unfortunately tend to fall in love with their own crazy arguments). But what succeeds in court is never the ultimate point of litigation: resolving the dispute is, and absolutely-every business dispute has a place at which it can be resolved, regardless of the legal merits. So it's not uncommon for a dispute to be resolved by the legal equivalent of having 1000 people run into machine gun fire, because sometimes that strategy works to resolve the dispute. It just depends on what one is willing to lose. And that's where really great lawyers earn their pay: devising practical strategies that incorporate their thinking about the law, but also how the law can best be used as a tool to achieve the ultimate goal, the resolution of the dispute.

And for what it's worth, I think that what the pilot market ultimately turns out to be is going to be the biggest driver of increases in pilot pay. Connie decided that he needed better candidates, it seems, so he settled the contract. Billy Flynn seems to be saying publicly that he's happy with his candidate pool, and until he has to admit that he isn't, he's going to string along negotiations. What ATI does is anybody's guess.

I hope that helps; I know it's not definitive, but hopefully it gives a potential outline of possibilities.

CTRCommander

That was a truly professional post. Thanks.

Your absolutely right on flexibility. Civil matters alone, can tie a law into a knot. Especially after a decade of rulings have eaten away at it. I guess you guys call that Tort law ?

I hope that guy writes a book or atleast an in depth article over the vision lawsuit. All the hoops they hand to jump through and national security red tape was ridiculous but he just nibbled away at it




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