Airline Pilot Central Forums - K4 Pilots Declaration Of Independance !

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jhugz (Post 2501790)

We just got an industry leading ACMI contract, we just won an arbitration to reduce our duty times by 6 hours (thanks to Teamsters delaying the contract), and our immediate reaction is to join an organization that scabbed the last DHL strike.

This...this...is why we can't have nice things around here...

How much do you believe the Teamsters did for our contract that ALPA or any other union would have not done? There was no magic here. The magic occured because of OUR Negotiations Team’s work. That and an environment that would not supply pilots to an airline that wanted to expand. If you think any different you are mistaken. The other issue you accuse ALPA of: Scabbed the last strike? Really? That’s what you think happened? Would have nothing to do at all with ALPA carriers not being advised of the work action? Would not be at all the result of **** poor planning by the Teamsters? Do you actually think for one second that any of us,including you,would not honor a picket line that we had been told was legal? 2 sides to every story with that one. I think there is blame on both sides and will go with the truth being in the middle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhugz (Post 2501945)

I care, because I work here, and don't want to choose between being a scab or losing my job next time 1224 strikes. I also care because Teamsters landed us an industry leading contract along with winning us a major duty time arbitration.

They care because they view this as bigger then two pilot groups in a dong measuring contest, just as I do. This isn't Kalitta vs. Atlas. This is ACMI pilots vs. ACMI management. Have you seriously not payed any attention to the ABX/ATI whipsaw? Because if you have any idea of what's going on over there, how can you support this? How can anyone support this? You really want to fuel that race to the bottom?

I'm so tired of hearing about the contract not being put out to vote. If you seriously believe that the couple months of lost wages is more important then a huge QoL/Schedule increase then I don't know what to tell you. Doing a 26 hour duty day and not having to airline at the end of it turning it into a 30 hour duty day is amazing. I just did the same pairing, exact scenario before and after the arbitration. Hitting the hotel room instead of cramming into the back of a 73 is pretty sweet. Thanks Teamsters!

If this contract went out to vote without the duty time limitations it would have passed. We'd have the same contract but be operating under worse duty rules. I'd say Teamsters and 1224 protected us from ourselves.

If you want to play the whole K4 against the world game...great...I think our contractual gains will be worse then sticking together as an ACMI community...

I would rather work together, avoid the whipsaw, and continuously improve this segment of the industry together with Teamsters and 1224.

They're not perfect, but they're a whole lot better then the alternative.

You do realize that what was in the original TA is what was awarded to us in what you call the huge increase. WE ALREADY HAD IT IN THE TA. This arbitration has been a huge waste of of money and time for us and has resulted in having to be subjected to 30 hour duty days for the past year, along with having to use the old rest rules for the past year. Thanks Teamsters. The rest of your post is just as full of inaccuracies

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Land 3 (Post 2501946)

Have you noticed that every K4 pilot that came from an ALPA regional within the past two to three years is dead set against switching to ALPA?

Yes, because they all came from a commuter where the deck was slanted against by a huge conflict of interest by the larger competing airlines in their segment. They should have never been on ALPA. Notice Republic does not seem to suffer those same issues with Teamsters. That because it is a different union with no conflict of interest.

Hmmmm.... Bigger carrier...Conflict of interest....oh Crap! That is the situation K4 is in

So is there a vote scheduled for K4 to leave Teamsters?

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Originally Posted by CargoPirate (Post 2502203)

So is there a vote scheduled for K4 to leave Teamsters?

yes.......

Max jet speaks the truth. We all should listen

Yes there is a vote to come. Company email already sent to look for it in the USPS mailbox. Estimated to be over 80% in favor of leaving Teamsters. The remaining 20% or less, are the ones to retire soon or are so new to the company they’re still on ioe and have no idea they could’ve voted yah or nay.

We wish you all the best of wishes and good luck in your endeavor to be Teamsters. Good luck with you lawsuits. Good luck with almagation. Good luck with your contract.

But know this, all of the Kalitta guys I have taked too, are done with Teamsters. The only ones in favor of staying are the very very very very very small tiny minority of a few guys that like to repeat the same pro teamster drivel here. We are fed up with this outfit.

And almost 70% of our new hire pilots came from regionals that were whipsawed, and are smart enough to see what’s happening here with Teamsters. Just my personal observation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by catching waves (Post 2502228)

Whipsawed by other ALPA carriers. You think it will be 80% in favor? I'd wager 100% of the pilots despise DW, so you may be right...

Quote:

Originally Posted by catching waves (Post 2501934)

And another day has gone by, with no answer regarding my post. Why do you all care whether K4 stays or goes? As some of you clearly point out how abysmal the working conditions are at some teamster represented companies, shouldn’t your energies be focused on fixing your messed up house instead of stirring up ours? Seriously, let it go. Go on with you life. Enough is enough. All your doing now is screaming into the face of the winds of change.

And another day has gone by with no understanding of the information that we are posting here.

It is all about the unity of different pilot groups. The reason that the major airlines have the great contracts is that they have adopted a unified strategy to build on each other's contracts - and NOT to undercut each other.

That is what 1224 is trying to do. Actually, 1224 has a unique opportunity in that, as ACMI carriers, most of their respective airlines have many of the same customers. In the past, the customer would drive the contracts by going to the lowest bidder. Now, however, 1224 is trying to raise the bar for all of the carriers by removing that option. There is also an advantage in that many of our contracts are currently under negotiation at the same time. By coordinating strategies, it is possible to raise the bar for ALL the pilots. This can only happen when the various pilot groups work together under their union.

So, to reiterate in case you are unclear, the union status at other 1224 airlines is of vital interest to all of us. To ditch 1224 now that you have a contract is not only strategically a bad idea, but it abandons all the other DHL carriers at a time that we need to have each other's backs covered.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by maxjet (Post 2502018)

Do explain the inaccuracies. What held up the contract then?

As for the status quo strike, Teamsters learned their lesson with the failed Allegiant status quo strike. Too many people knew about it and it was shut down before it could even happen by management having enough notice and being proactive.

The way Teamsters conducted the status quo strike for ABX was the only way it could be effective. Stop drinking the ALPA kool-aide as they scramble to figure out a way to spin how not to get a whole pilot group labeled as scabs.