Atsg ati/abx

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11-08-2017, 12:11 AM

#11

woog315

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Joined APC: Apr 2015

Posts: 221

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjcandee

For what it's worth, the agreements actually work this way. Amazon dry leased the CAM 767-200s for 5 years. They dry leased the CAM 767-300s for seven years. Whatever the lease rates are on those airplanes, they are paid directly by AFS to CAM. Separately, Amazon and the ATSG carriers entered into a CMI agreement for 5 years, terminable at Amazon's convenience on 180 days notice. With respect to Atlas, the 767-300s are dry leased by Amazon from Atlas leasing subsidiaries Titan and Andromeda for 10 years, with the AFS/Atlas Air CMI agreement being for 7 years, with a similar termination for convenience provision. All of the Amazon Prime Air aircraft are controlled by Amazon; they can't be used by the carriers for anything else, and on 180 days notice, Amazon can place any of them with any carrier they wish. 1709A, 255CM and 395CM are aircraft that are dry leased by each of Atlas and ATI from their respective leasing companies, and are used by those carriers for whatever purpose they wish, including as backups if necessary for their Amazon contracts.

Yup, this is how it is structured (more or less), and one thing Amazon has proven over and over is they are really good at what they do but they are not so good at understanding that they do, in fact, have a big boss called the federal government. And a little branch of that government known as the FAA has a huge hard on for certificated operators proving they are maintaining "operational control" over their airline and not being bossed around by their customers. I wonder if they are watching this entire situation very closely? And, on top of the basic legal wrangling, Trump and Bezos seem to have a little rivalry going. Who knows what is bubbling right beneath the surface.

11-08-2017, 07:40 AM

#12

CTRCommander

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Joined APC: Apr 2016

Posts: 430

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekends OFF

The commuters are trolling highschools now with highscool to flight school programs. They will happily fly in this market for 2-3yrs. Mark my word

LMAO are you serious?

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11-13-2017, 01:12 PM

#13

crazycoconut

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Joined APC: Sep 2017

Posts: 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTRCommander

As you said Hawaiian is crew only. Which to my knowledge is the first time we’ve done such a thing.

The aircraft flying the HNL-LAX route is leased by NAC. ATI crews will only be flying it until NAC gets their ETOPS certificate, then the NAC/Aloha pilots will fly it.
ABX crews were flying the route with ABX airplanes until last week when the new 767 showed up in Aloha Air Cargo livery.
The number of the new plane is 399CM, so guessing the ATI crews are part of the lease deal.

11-13-2017, 08:07 PM

#14

wjcandee

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Joined APC: Aug 2016

Posts: 493

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycoconut

Well, probably two different contracts with two different companies -- a dry lease from CAM (for 3 aircraft) and a short-term CMI agreement with ATI. However, ATSG could have proposed the CMI deal when it looked like Northern wasn't actually going to be able to crew the first dry-leased aircraft when it was ready.