Split S

Just a question of curiosity, if you were just coming into the civilian job market from the military without the PIC mins for FEDEX or UPS which job would you take and why? F/O on a 747 w/ an ACMI company and probably a 5yr upgrade, or F/O with a Legacy carrier on the 737 or MD-80 series and a 10yr upgrade? No I don't currently have job offers with both, just trying to understand the pro's and con's of both over the long run of a career...

Thanks for the opinions

-SS

L'il J.Seinfeld

I think that Atlas and some others are 'career' jobs. They are certainly no more unstable than any pax carrier. I'd stay as far away from pax flying as possible. Atlas has a pretty good pay scale. If you flew in the Guard/Reserves you could continue building PIC and fly in your civilian job and make decent money. That way you don't go broke and continue to improve your quals if FDX/UPS is what you want.

Led Zep

Personally, I would go the freight route if I had to choose between the two. Compared to pax flying, cargo seems to provide much more stability over the long run. One scenario that needs to be addressed is this: if hiring slowed down and you were going to spend a considerable amount of time somewhere (i.e., 5+ years), would you rather it be a cargo airline or a passenger airline?

I have never flown passengers, so I can't comment on their side of the fence. However, I'll list the pros and cons of cargo for you as I see it.

Pros:
Stability is usually much better overall.
Not much time spent in airport terminals unless as a passenger.
No passenger-induced problems from the back.
Flights are catered. (most carriers)
Wide variety of routes to fly.
Business people can conference call - freight cannot.
Going to bed early in the morning instead of getting a wake-up call early in the morning.

Cons:
Some of the pairings can be long. Again, depending on the carrier.
Night flying can be more challenging physically.
For some people, long flight segments can be a challenge as opposed to multiple shorter ones.

This list is probably inconclusive, but these are a few of the pros and cons that come to mind. I have never flown ACMI freight, but hopefully this will help give you some insight.

Whaledriver

I think it has a lot to do with where you want to be 15 years from now, and how old you want to feel when you get there.

I'm at Atlas. Been here for awhile and I'm in the left seat. I like the long legs. We get to cruise, put comfortable shirts on, slippers if you choose, and then hit the sandwich tray. The upper deck gives you plenty of room to stretch and relax if you deadheading. Once the door is closed, its you and your crew. A lot easier to get things done, less folks involved.

If you like to travel and have two and three day layovers, this is where you want to be, inclusive of the the other ACMI outfits. Never know where you'll end up. Leave home thinking your gonna fly between Korea, Hong kong and Anchorage and end up in Delhi and Dubai. Also consider leaving home, thinking you'll be back in nine days and be gone for two weeks. You miss B-days, holidays, and anniversary's. But when your home, you can be home for weeks, if you bid it right.

The back side of the clock is tough. It will age you. As a captain, a lot more responsibility vs the pax operators. I mean that as getting things together and moving in the right direction, not as a hit on the pax guys. They show up and everything is waiting for them, generally.

Atlas, your going to have to deal with an overseas base for a few years. Stansted is a pain. Might get fixed if we merge with Polar, but no telling.

Another issue, pax guys are thought of much higher by the general public, like thinking they have a differant ticket than the cargo guys? We start trips in the cargo area, where taxi drivers have no idea how to get there.

Hope this helps............

767pilot

That was good advice from Whaledriver. When the time comes, if you are able to choose, consider yourself lucky. In the mean time, just aim for the one that gives you the best job and the best career. As hard as you try, you may never be able to get out of the first place that hires you.

FliFast

Excellent post, Whaledriver. Before UPS, I was a Focus Air Capt on the 747 and before that had numerous years flying passengers in all three seats.

In my opinion, at an ACMI cargo carrier, you are usually off on your own. It is quite common to fly to places you never dreamed off going and having to get your aircraft out of there using only the resources that are right in front of you...which is another good reason to be nice to your mechanic, load master and crew. It's impressive to fly the big iron and fly all over the world which is a desirable hiring qualification at UPS. With that being said, during my time at Focus Air, I'd average 5 hours of sleep a night and my health was definately affected between drinking, jet lag, insomnia, and having to fight the good fight to get the plane loaded and off the cargo ramp.

During my time at the passenger airlines, everything was spoon fed to me, crews weren't as tight as they were in the ACMI business and flying to the hub 4 times a day was as interesting as greek opera. On the flip side, pass travel, benefits and name-recognition for your airline were some of the more postive aspects about flying for the passenger airlines.

To echo what was mentioned above, where do you want to be in 5,10 ,20 years and how do you want to get there. IF UPS/FDX are in your sights, the ACMI route offers you international heavy time experience which seems to be a desired qualification. In my opinion, ACMI offers sooner upgrades too.

If quality of life, family, being home and the like are higher on your priority list than maybe the passenger route is where your time should be spent.

Just my opinion, best of luck.

ps. Whaledriver, you guys wear slippers too ??!! Walmart had some great NASCAR ones on sale recently, FYI.

Rama

ACMI will get you quicker pic time if that's what you are looking for, the price is long stretches away from home every month. Think 17-19 days in a row month after month. It is especially hard on families, though the plus is commuting only once a month.

dojetdriver

Like the other guy said, where do you want to be in 15 years and what is your ulitlmate career goal?

Huck

From observing my captains' feet, it appears they sell them at the Narita Hilton too.....