Originally Posted by 6Badger9 (Post 3343132)

if your company is requiring you to Part 91 on your last leg (unless you’re stuck in a war ridden country with nowhere to stay)- maybe you should find a new company. That’s all I’m going to say.

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 3343139)

Perhaps that's all you should say. You're not doing very well so far.

Originally Posted by HPIC (Post 3343129)

When you balk at a 20 hour duty day…which, BTW, is allowed per the Atlas CBA at the present time…you show ignorance. We have crews doing 19-20 hour multi leg days every day. ANC-HKG-ICN for example. Scheduled for about 19.5 duty.

Sure, the new contract says 18 hour scheduled limit, but that’s not implemented yet…and likely won’t be until we go back to laying over in places like HKG, which we likely never will.

These days are being “normalized” now at Atlas.

Originally Posted by dera (Post 3343485)

And at 175% pay, not many complain. You'll get good 6 hours in the bunk too so it's not a bad day at all.

Originally Posted by HPIC (Post 3343522)

Ok, cool…so you’ve made it clear you will do anything for money…now when the 175% goes away we will see just what your price point is.

I get it…this is the first job you’ve ever had that you made more than minimum wage or close to it. You don’t know what you don’t know.

Originally Posted by airgoose (Post 3343575)

I have been silent reader here lately, thinking about applying now asap.

would really appreciate if someone can give me more info about WGA please.

Fleet difference? B747/MD11

Upgrade times? B747/MD11

Pros and cons? B747/MD11

For those current pilots, if given chance what would you have choose and why?

Training success ratio on 747 or MD11

Does the new atlas pay, WGA less attractive?

Can we also expect more pay increase? Or at-least Business class on DH’s?




Thank you everyone

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 3343004)

You've never flown supplemental, have you?

With four pilots, what's the legal duty day under international rules (14 CFR 121.523)? 30 hours. Welcome to reality. You may have missed it, wrapped up in the cozy confines of Part 117, or the fact that the supplemental world was carved out of the duty and rest rules when introduced a decade ago. In other words, excluded.

Standard duty day for a two-man crew, domestic? 16 hours.

Three pilots domestic? 18 hours. International with three pilots? 26 hours.

Four pilots domestic? 20 hours. International 30 hours.

If that crew flew ICN-ORD with revenue cargo, however, and ended their duty day in Chicago, it's entirely possible that the next leg back to Incheon was done under Part 91, after duty. This is legal.

Not legal was what WGA was trying to do a few years ago with the 747 crews: Part 91 legs BEFORE duty. A chief pilot quit over that.

WGA runs it's MD11s under domestic flight, duty, and rest requirements, as it has no rest facilities on board, and does not do crew rest on board. Not so, of the 747, which can do international flight, duty and rest rules. WGA has also done a lot of Part 91 repositioning, ORD-ICN, or LAX-ICN on legs up to 14 hours, and they've done it with as few as two-man crews, though more often with just three.

For the bonus round, how much rest is required of a crewmember on their first duty day, before duty, in the supplemental world? If you guessed zero, and you'd have to guess as this is clearly foreign to you, you'd have guessed correctly. Go figure.

How much rest time is required "behind the door?" Zero, because this is an imaginary term not found in the regulation. Thus, when WGA commercials a crewmember to Anchorage for 13 hours, then gives 10 hours "rest" from arrival to departure, the crew member might take an hour getting to the hotel, typically shows two hours prior in the lobby, and has seven hours. If the crewmember selfishly wishes to eat, deduct a couple of hours to go get food, there's five hours. If one is stupid enough to believe a crew member can fall asleep, and wake up and prep in an hour, there's four hours of actual "rest" before the duty day, but let's face it. That's really not happening either, especially if one's the captain and will be getting up to prep for the flight, call each crewmember an hour prior, etc, to say nothing of the rolling delays pushing the flight back an hour, or three hours at a time, sometimes for another 12+ hours. WGA maintains, as do most supplementals, that if a crewmember is fatigued, he or she may call fatigue, but otherwise, the show goes on. Factor into that time zones, cumulative fatigue, and other things that Part 117 covers...but that supplemental regulations do NOT, and even a simple legal duty day may be a whole lot longer than a simple legal duty day, and a lot more exhausting than a mere 16, 18, 20, 26, or 30 hours. Factor in trips that fly west in which you fly all day but only see night, cross the dateline to return and land two hours before they took off, and trips that span two days and never see dark...and you may be a supplemental pilot. If any of that surprises you, then clearly you have never been.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...-121/subpart-S

Originally Posted by treefiddy (Post 3343698)

MD11 - More block hours, great crews, 2 sometimes broken courier seats for "rest facilities", probably more AOG sitting even with the additional block hours, but adding a few new airframes by the end of 2022.
747 - Some would say it has more of a "Gucci" vibe being the smaller fleet but I would say this depends on the crews you fly with over there as well. Facilities onboard compared to the MD are obviously night and day. Most trips are similar to MD but there are a few different ones.
777 - They are coming. Announcement was for (2) 777-200LRF, with the option for one more and the right to purchase 2 additional ones. Deliveries start in August 2024 so take that into consideration as well.

I would say you can't go wrong on either fleet right now. Just depends on what you want. If you come prepared training is typical for ACMI. No AQP. In the past, upgrade was dependent on captain/instructor recommendations, performance and not seniority. The book says you need 500 hours of WGA time to be considered. This system may go away with the union coming though. The problem is even if they go in seniority they can't find enough people to pass upgrade class. Attrition is high right now, so that will continue to create quick opportunities for upgrade. The pay needs to increase more, but timing will be dependent on contract negotiations.

Disclaimer - I bailed for UPS but it was a great job.

Originally Posted by Kansaspilot92 (Post 3343719)

Plus pay rates are now 10% higher than what it says here, and day 18+ is 200% pay, as well as having a mix of 17 day hard lines, 17+3 extendable, or 20day hard lines. rickair7777 is it possible to get the rates and schedules updated?