Grundt, gumpscheck, johnny knoxville, and Industry Strd have all posted in this thread with the implication that they are authors of the site under discussion. Different identities of the same person; they all seem to attack other posters in the same manner, use similar language, and reference new material put up or defend the source.

It is full of holes, incidentally, and OAI isn't a cargo company. Not all cargo operators are listed.

Which "author" will attack this time?

I count three errors on the first page of the overall comparison chart for UPS. Not busting balls....just pointing out.

Errors
 

Seems to me, if you can declare an error, you know where it is located in the contract and should be willing to put that information in your post.

IE, FedEX 4.F.2.a Trip rig should be 1:3.75 (yes, that's correct in the comparison they provided)

The OP put up a product, added source material (proof/evidence) and asked for clarification if something is wrong. If you declare something wrong, you should post your proof/evidence. Then it can be verified (either by them or by other people following the thread).


Not sure if the OP is getting revenue, or just did this to help other pilots out. If it is the latter, seems like people on here that are interested in helping out would be more than happy to provide details of the error. If the former is true, it seems like people would still be happy to point out the specific error.


The post stating that per diem was transposed between FedEX and UPS is a pretty good example. In the document I just downloaded, the per diem for FedEX was correct (from FedEX 5.A.1).


Seems like the author wants to fix things that are identified and can be reasonably verified.


If I had personally put all this together, I would ignore claimed errors that weren't provided with a section. I believe it is justified, because I know that I interpreted the data that I presented. Of course, the transposition error, I would go back and check because it is specific enough as well as being a data entry error...

https://cargofacts.com/atsg-adds-777-platform-through-omni-air-acquisition/

Appears onmi will be a cargo co! Also hard to say the contracts are wrong. So far don't see any contract paragraphs cited that are wrong. I wonder why? And I wonder why people seem to be so angry over data that is being put out to help pilots decide the best place to work and maybe pressure their union to raise the bar. Must be management worried pilots might actually work together!

UPS monthly hourly guarantee, perdiem, international override and rigs are incorrect.

This has not been fixed

Boiler is correct.....those are incorrect.....all the correct figures for these pay categories is on the UPS profile on this website.

Not sure its that conspiratory, and really don't think guys are angry.........it's that some of your numbers are wrong and guys are pointing it out so you can make the correct changes. If one is using this to decide "the best place to work" it should have accurate info....wouldn't you agree?

Not an error. $286 is the final rate of the cba, not the rate right now! Go to the cba and use the rate now and you will see the chart is correct.

So I just crossed checked UPS CBA the rigs list in the cba are what is depicted in the chart, the Perdiem listed in Article 12 is correct in the chart. And the guarantee is corrected in the chart for 12 bid periods. Apears the only mistake is the International override. Which appears to be Fedex.

After mutiple checks the ACMI rates are correct and way short of where they should be. And the retirement it's short too $

ok
not a problem if thats what you mean to portray - to me it's more meaningful to show all the groups numbers with the best that their current cba's have to offer - just the way I feel - you can make argument either way

however you do use the language below for salary computations
Maximum
Longevity CA
and FO Base
Annual Salary

and very similar language for max pay
Max Captain
Hourly Rate
in CBA

again if thats what you want fine its your deal
and I get that there is limited space - but it could be a little clearer

these are just constructive criticisms
please take it that way

4 week guarantee at UPS is 75 hours... not sure how one can conclude that a 12 month equivalent would be less than that.

75 x 13 = 975
975/12 = 81.25

Not sure about the rest but on that glaring point Boiler is correct... as usual.

The UPS EDW duty rig is 1.5:1, which is not listed on your chart. 12.F.(4)

For Perdiem, you are stopping at the 12.G.(2) charts, without regard for the 12.G.(4) adjustments. Can't necessarily fault you for that as you aren't a UPS pilot, but 2017 rates are on the APC profile for UPS and here are the 2018 rates:

Domestic: $2.60
Europe: $3.45
PacRim: $3.65
International: $3.35

BrownDoubles has addressed the guarantee discrepancy (12.D.1).

Anger?

Defensive much?

For someone who seeks corrections you keep belittling those who identify the problems, name calling, and making accusations.

Why was this thread even made a sticky?

Ah, there it is again - the "management troll" defense.

Find a better argument.

Request to content creator
 

To the OP:

I think we all want to use your chart. You've put together lots of data and done a good job organizing it into a readable and usable product.

What I don't understand is your reluctance (and petulance) to adjust incorrect figures. The facts you're asking for are found on this website - look at the airline profiles.

Your responsibility as the creator is to become an expert in knowing where to find the data for each space on the chart. In fact, when I've made similar charts I would note in each chart space where I found the source data. Makes it easy to verify when questions present themselves. I suspect some of your errors are in transposing the data from your collection spot to the chart. Proofread then publish.

Last - Please take criticism in the way it was meant, just to help you get it right. Why would managers want to confuse people on guarantee and pay? It's simply looked up on APC and in each contract. It's easier to obscure the finer points.

Respect

I think they guys who made it are on a 17 day trip to Hong Kong and are looking it over to make changes when they get time to. Looks like the fedex and ups column got interchanged for in a few boxes.

Guarantee at Omni is wrong for one. There are two.

General - 64 Hrs
Special Programs - 80 Hrs

1/3rd of the fleet is dedicated to special programs. New Hires are able to bid and get it, so it isn't a senior guys only thing. If you want to fly a lot bid the program. If you want to get paid for 64 while flying 25-40 bid general.

If you want to do scheduled airline style flying, bid Vegas.

Lots and lots of soft money hidden everywhere that raises guarantee also without actually flying anything extra.

I agree. The idea is excellent. The work so far on organizing and presenting has been excellent. Now it's time to clean up the fine details so that it becomes the go to source for comparison. Great start, keep improving it.

That is not an accurate statement, it is not in the article you cite at all.
Please keep the info fact based, not opinion based.


If they transfer planes years down the road from passenger to freight, and shift the hull to a different subsidiary that specializes in cargo doe snot reflect the deal under the current CBA.


For your website to have value, it has to be a fact based comparison of today and within the duration of the CBA presented without guessing about possible business model changes.

Who said anything about converting or moving airplanes?

DHL is buying 10 (if memory serves) 777Fs. Omni stands to grow by a few if ATSG manages to secure part of that business.

you're taking it out of context. The article he quoted said nothing of what he was saying.

The post was saying he can't make comparisons based on what "might happen" and that was an example only to dramatize the point.

You're interpretation of them possibly growing from the deal is also speculation. The point I was making wa to keep his comparison website based upon current facts; not opinions.

To be clear, I did not make any of this. I merely shared the link here. The guys that made it read these forums, so feel free to continue posting corrections as necessary.

I think most people reading this get the general idea of whats going on at the different airlines even if it's not down to the last penny. Also the correction posts should help to clear up some of it. If someone uses this as their only guide and picks Southern or ABX over Fedex or UPS...100% accuracy would not help that much.

https://youtu.be/qKXnDamrrr0


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I have just worked at both Airlines. Current projection for UPS first upgrade will be 6-7 years and FedEx First wide-body upgrade approximately 8 years.

There are many UPS and FedEx pilots being hired with 6-10 years left in their career. Why would you say you were untrainable?

FedEx has numerous under 3 year Captains. I bet this next bid will have WB Captain awarded to someone under 5 years. Bid is usually Jan/Feb.

How many of the under 3 year pilots are trained and in pay status as Captain?
Thx

A few dozen. No more than about 40-45.

16-01 bid had a 6yr Airbus Captain, and at least 18 757 captains with less than 18 months. Some had less than a year on property when awarded the upgrade.

There is probably at least 60 of us that have 3 1/2 years or less. When the 18-01 bid finishes I’ll have less than 4 years on property and will have 80 plus 757 Captains junior to me.

Thanks for the info.
Good year to all :)

It depends.

What are your stats and what is your ultimate goal?

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I will give you some advice.

First, you absolutely must do your research about the current pay and work rules in force today. I cannot count how many times people come from the regionals and then complain about the work rules here, saying they are better in the regionals.

If you come and find yourself unpleasantly surprised that's YOUR fault, and of course also the fault of the recruiters who probably misled, or flat out lied to you during the recruitment process.

Second, realize that the company and the union are in a full blown, knock down drag out, gutter fight.

Third, there is a lot of short to medium term uncertainty with the direction of the company, given the influence of Amazon, DHL and the latest crash. You need to be prepared for ANY consequence those three factors may impose on the operation.

If you can handle the low pay, horrible work rules and turbulent (to put it mildly) work environment then come on over, but I highly recommend you keep some other apps updated just in case it doesn't turn out to be your cup of tea.

Very well said. At ABX close to 50% quit and go back to passenger or their old place of employment once they see how aweful ACMI is. ......and ABX is actually considered to have the best work rules in ACMI. Everyone should do their home work before making a leap!

While I commend your sentiment regarding the jobs at FedEx and UPS, I have to question the rest of your post.


How in the world is Amazon's CVG sort facility going to rival FedEx's and UPS's -- COMBINED? From what I've read the facility's capability is going to be less than FedEx's. On peak nights FedEx has 150 airplanes flying through the sort and that doesn't include our feeder folks. Even the Indy Hub, which is currently 2.5 million square feet, is scheduled for a $1.5B expansion this year -- the same amount Amazon is spending in CVG. While I agree Amazon is rapidly expanding their logistics capability, I think your comment is greatly exaggerated. Please prove me wrong if I am mistaken.



Second, with reference to Southwest, how is Amazon and DHL "southwesting" FedEx and UPS?

By underpaying and overworking their pilots.

Don’t pay any attention to him. He’s been drinking the Kool Aid.

Ah I get it now. I don’t want a war with him. That wouldn’t be productive here. I was only wondering how the Southwest reference was being applied. Your explanation makes perfect sense. Thank you.