Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List
JonnyKnoxville

Closed
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-26-2018, 05:32 PM   #41  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackStraw View Post
The question soon will be ‘was the fight for Section 6 rights be worth it in the end’. If the outcome is a loss for the Atlas Exco there will be a lot of questions that need to be answered; specifically ‘how much did we lose over this time and why did you listen to lawyers who only benefited from this drawn-out process’.

Then again, if the judge rules in IBT’s favor it’s a massive win and will forever change the culture of the company for the better.
Make no mistake, management's amalgamation plan has never been about taking an alternative path. It has been a conduit for delay. Win or lose, management will only negotiate the next CBA when they have no other choice but to do so. Furthermore, allowing the amalgamation path to take place without a fight ensures zero future at this airline. IF management wins both of the arbitrations, there is no longer any point in ever thinking this will be anything other than the bottom feeder of the industry where management buys airline after airline to perpetually avoid all negotiations. Giving up on this fight for a false perception of a quicker path is giving up on your career.
JonnyKnoxville is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 07:00 PM   #42  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 198
Default

Swapping unions would be a really bad idea right now. ALPA has some advantages over IBT, but IBT has some advantages over ALPA too.
Elevation is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 11:02 PM   #43  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 72
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevation View Post
Swapping unions would be a really bad idea right now.

Yes it would be. While most of our problems lie with our current leadership and their failed tactics that are similar repeats of the past merger. I do have some miss givings of the Teamsters, going back to ALPA would be way worse. As a matter of fact, our current EXCO Chair was pro ALPA and pro non-merger back in the day on the first one. Spent most of his time giving lobbying parties to ALPA leadership while his nose was parking neatly in their posteriors to keep the merger from happening despite what he says today. If he had a choice, we would still be battling it out but the desertification of ALPA and the single carrier NMB determination fixed that.

Here is what ALPA said about us ACMI carriers as they did everything to burn us at Atlas while taking our dues money.

I've also noted an uptick by the new hires that they are tired of being blamed as the crux of the problem by our leadership. Tired of being asked when they are going to leave etc and they feel are blamed somehow to the ongoing problems the current campaign the EXCO is running of dissuading new hires to come here to gain leverage at the table. A spin off of the "complete operational merger" preached to the Polar guys back in those days they stood on to log jamb everything. With our turn over and the leaderships current tactics, they may only be in office for so long. Much how they got in under the last wave of new hires making promises they couldn't keep.
scrupulous is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 01:11 AM   #44  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrupulous View Post
Yes it would be. While most of our problems lie with our current leadership and their failed tactics that are similar repeats of the past merger. I do have some miss givings of the Teamsters, going back to ALPA would be way worse. As a matter of fact, our current EXCO Chair was pro ALPA and pro non-merger back in the day on the first one. Spent most of his time giving lobbying parties to ALPA leadership while his nose was parking neatly in their posteriors to keep the merger from happening despite what he says today. If he had a choice, we would still be battling it out but the desertification of ALPA and the single carrier NMB determination fixed that.

Here is what ALPA said about us ACMI carriers as they did everything to burn us at Atlas while taking our dues money.

I've also noted an uptick by the new hires that they are tired of being blamed as the crux of the problem by our leadership. Tired of being asked when they are going to leave etc and they feel are blamed somehow to the ongoing problems the current campaign the EXCO is running of dissuading new hires to come here to gain leverage at the table. A spin off of the "complete operational merger" preached to the Polar guys back in those days they stood on to log jamb everything. With our turn over and the leaderships current tactics, they may only be in office for so long. Much how they got in under the last wave of new hires making promises they couldn't keep.
Oh, sudden impact, how we have missed you and your theories.
JonnyKnoxville is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 04:52 AM   #45  
Seeing the World
 
maxjet's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: B747-4 CA/Instructor
Posts: 1,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville View Post
Oh, sudden impact, how we have missed you and your theories.
I do agree with his point that you cannot change unions. Atlas is the one carrier that should never change unions. They ARE 1224. It doesnít get any better than this. Other locals paying for some of their expenses and they are in complete control of their destiny. What might need to change is the strategy. I write might because this internet mess is hopefully just an illusion perpetrated by an above average negotiation team. At times it does seem a little ham handed.

You need to always trust your negotiating committee regardless as to how things appear to be. What do you have to lose? Changing things at this point could only guarantee one thing. A longer negotiation. I wish them well and hope they kick ass.
maxjet is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 05:16 AM   #46  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 406
Default

ALPA isnít going to do anything more for you guys than any other union. ALPA National is all about the money, their money. They love to collect dues and talk about standing firm, but when itís actually time to take a stand they tuck tail and run. They were all talk leading up to the Polar strike until the pilots got released. Once they realized that they were going to have to spend more money than they would recover from such a small group they suddenly encouraged the pilots to take the companies offer. That offer was worse than the contract that they were trying to replace. The problems at Atlas are with who you have to negotiate with. I canít speak to who you have in your union trying to negotiate with them since Iím not there. If youíre not happy with their methods Iíd bet that youíd be better off replacing individual negotiators than replacing the IBT with something else.
Itsajob is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 08:57 AM   #47  
Gets Weekends Off
 
iPilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 600
Default

Its not like ALPA will airlift a crack team into the seniority list handing us expert MECs and negotiating teams. Regardless of affiliation an airline union is simply made up of pilots on its seniority list.

If you're thinking ALPA national will do anything more than Teamsters national you're deluding yourself. If you want a better union it's up to you, the member.
iPilot is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:55 AM   #48  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SaltyDog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deus ex machina View Post

Weak unions like SWAPA, IPA and IBT are easy for the company to manipulate and delay...

Enjoy....


....the scourge.
LOL
and pray tell how does ALPA prevent management tricks to manipulate and delay under the RLA that these other unions do not?
I'm not an ALPA detractor, far from it, they have produced great things for pilots, but your comments suggest a partisan view and ignores the contributions of other pilot unions that are successful for all of us too.
Oh, and somehow the APA must be terrific as you didn't disparage those fine folks and think they are a weak union. Perhaps folks can explore APA success.
SaltyDog is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:51 PM   #49  
Lead Guitar & Vocals
 
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPilot View Post
Its not like ALPA will airlift a crack team into the seniority list handing us expert MECs and negotiating teams. Regardless of affiliation an airline union is simply made up of pilots on its seniority list.

If you're thinking ALPA national will do anything more than Teamsters national you're deluding yourself. If you want a better union it's up to you, the member.
So True! Could not agree more!
Almost There is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 01:16 PM   #50  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPilot View Post
Its not like ALPA will airlift a crack team into the seniority list handing us expert MECs and negotiating teams. Regardless of affiliation an airline union is simply made up of pilots on its seniority list.

If you're thinking ALPA national will do anything more than Teamsters national you're deluding yourself. If you want a better union it's up to you, the member.
Nobody wants to look at them-self in the mirror after sprinting through an airport to make their next commercial connection on work day 28 of their current month and realize that they are a Teamster.... Or Alpa... Or IPA... Isn't it easier to just fail and blame someone else? The "teamsters UNION" is made up of its members.

Good post.
Globemaster2827 is offline  
 
 
 

 
Closed
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Delta Snap Up SpecialTracking United 158 06-21-2019 03:59 PM
Atlas boeingdvr Cargo 150 09-12-2018 06:14 PM
For those considering Go-Jets, from a troll. Flogger GoJet 24 07-26-2018 05:50 PM
American Eagle ALPA & AA APA Strike bgmann Regional 31 11-19-2011 07:33 PM
UAL hiring? John Pennekamp Major 28 02-13-2007 01:08 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:55 AM.