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Old 05-11-2007 | 07:31 AM
  #61  
Jaxman187's Avatar
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From: MD11 F/O
Default What About Past Practice???

FECAV8R,

You appear to be someone in the know. I respectfully request your perceptions on the following FCIF which subtly but significantly changed years of past practice. In effect it allows the company to publish whatever it wants for accepted fares. How did we get here and how was this negotiated? I have heard that the issue of deviation banks is dead horse but this FCIF in my opinion has a certain element of subterfuge. It repeats items that are common knowledge with no change and then includes the benefit of free internet while at the same time overturns years of past practice. Was the definition of "Scheduled" was redefined by FCIF?




FCIF 05-0315 EXPENSE REPORT HELP UPDATE (Admin)
Issue Date: 07/20/05 1508z
Source: Deborah Cole
Suspense: 12/15/05
Approved: Rich Lewis

Updated General Information on Travel Related Expense Reports:

1. In order to have your deviation bank SCHEDULED FARE adjusted, the
following procedures should apply:

a. The trip is revised or is an Xpairing and there is not an acceptable
fare. You should contact Global Travel and ask for a fare quote. If there
is an acceptable fare for your DH, you are only entitled to the acceptable
fare for deviation purposes.
b. The 'SCHEDULED' Ticket purchased with the USBank Visa Card or Personal
funds was issued at a higher rate and used/flown as scheduled.
c. The acceptable fare is higher due to a ticket issued through Global
Travel that is used/flown as scheduled.

2. ALL ORIGINAL receipts for expenses over $25.00 are required to be
submitted for Travel related expense reports, with name and employee
number noted on them.

a. Hotels- an original itemized folio is required to be submitted- NO
EXCEPTIONS.

b. Airline Tickets- personal fund reimbursements must have ticket receipt
and boarding pass. A USBank/Visa purchased airline ticket requires a
receipt and/or a boarding pass.

c. Internet charges- the daily allowable limit for internet charge
reimbursement is $25.00 per day maximum during a SCHEDULED LAYOVER HOTEL.
Receipts/paid hotel folios must be submitted for all internet charges in
order to be reimbursed.

d. Phone call charges- A receipt should be submitted for Phone call
charges. If you do not have a receipt, the phone numbers called need to
be reference on your expense report.

Updated General information for Non-Travel Related Expense Reports:

1. ALL ORIGINAL receipts are required for non-travel submittals.

a. Uniforms- need original itemized receipt (white copy) from Uniform
Solutions. All other vendor receipts must list items purchased.

b. FAA- need original itemized receipt which bears the name, address and
phone number of the Doctor/Physician. The exception is physicals performed
by an existing, pre-approved physician who direct bills Fedex. That list
can be obtained by email at [email protected].

c. Passports- to be reimbursed for expediting fees, you must have PRE-
APPROVAL by your ACP. The $67 passport fee can be reimbursed with a
receipt or a copy of your passport. Receipts are required for passport
photos.

NON-COMPLIANCE REPORTS: Crew members are notified by email if there are
any records requiring an expense report to be filed. Crew members receive
a copy of their USBank/Visa statement in the mail monthly. A crew member
has a 30 day window to submit reports online after the bid month closes.
If the report is not submitted, Crew Audit will take appropriate action,
which may require a payroll deduction for amounts not validated or
exceeding the value of the crew members' deviation bank.
Reply
Old 05-13-2007 | 02:06 PM
  #62  
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From: MD11
Default we need to fight this one

I believe that the accepted fare issue is yet another rollover by those that are avoiding a confrontation. Mid trips are shot to he!! and need fixed immediately.

An excellent time for our new contract admin chief to get his/her feet wet before becoming a manager!

Cheers

Mo
Reply
Old 05-13-2007 | 03:03 PM
  #63  
KnightFlyer's Avatar
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Default

May07 Positive Rate:

Section 8.C.2.a Deadhead Deviation Banks
A pilot shall have a deviation bank established for each
bid period. The value of the deviation bank shall equal the
value of the scheduled deadhead tickets for trips flown dur-
ing the bid period plus the value of any scheduled dead-
heads for recurrent training. However, if a deadhead trip is
changed or canceled by the company, the deadhead bank
monies remain intact. A deadhead associated with a
carryover trip shall be credited to the deviation bank for the
bid period.

Based on the number of questions that Contract Enforce-
ment receives regarding this provision of the Agreement, it is
worth explaining how your deviation bank is established and
maintained.
When your line is awarded, or, in the case of a secondary
or conversation line—built, the value of any scheduled dead-
head flights are credited to your deviation bank. The estab-
lished bank is maintained as the higher of the following:

1. the value at the time the trip was awarded/assigned,
or
2. the value at the time of the trip’s block-out, or
3. the value as flown.

This provision is further underlined by the 1999 Question
and Answer Guide, a joint FPA and company document.
Question 6, on page 21 of this document, asks in part:
Q: What happens to my deviation bank if my deadhead
schedule is revised, or my trip is canceled?
A: The deviation bank will have the higher of the deviation
monies when the trip was awarded/assigned, or upon
block-out.

Typically, we receive questions regarding multiple trip
revisions in the field, where deadhead flights are added, de-
leted, and so on. The contractual intent was not to credit the
cumulative total value for each deadhead, as these dead-
heads are subject to revision.
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Old 05-13-2007 | 07:23 PM
  #64  
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Default

Originally Posted by Jaxman187
FECAV8R,

You appear to be someone in the know. I respectfully request your perceptions on the following FCIF which subtly but significantly changed years of past practice. In effect it allows the company to publish whatever it wants for accepted fares. How did we get here and how was this negotiated? I have heard that the issue of deviation banks is dead horse but this FCIF in my opinion has a certain element of subterfuge. It repeats items that are common knowledge with no change and then includes the benefit of free internet while at the same time overturns years of past practice. Was the definition of "Scheduled" was redefined by FCIF?




FCIF 05-0315 EXPENSE REPORT HELP UPDATE (Admin)
Issue Date: 07/20/05 1508z
Source: Deborah Cole
Suspense: 12/15/05
Approved: Rich Lewis

Updated General Information on Travel Related Expense Reports:

1. In order to have your deviation bank SCHEDULED FARE adjusted, the
following procedures should apply:

a. The trip is revised or is an Xpairing and there is not an acceptable
fare. You should contact Global Travel and ask for a fare quote. If there
is an acceptable fare for your DH, you are only entitled to the acceptable
fare for deviation purposes.
b. The 'SCHEDULED' Ticket purchased with the USBank Visa Card or Personal
funds was issued at a higher rate and used/flown as scheduled.
c. The acceptable fare is higher due to a ticket issued through Global
Travel that is used/flown as scheduled.

2. ALL ORIGINAL receipts for expenses over $25.00 are required to be
submitted for Travel related expense reports, with name and employee
number noted on them.

a. Hotels- an original itemized folio is required to be submitted- NO
EXCEPTIONS.

b. Airline Tickets- personal fund reimbursements must have ticket receipt
and boarding pass. A USBank/Visa purchased airline ticket requires a
receipt and/or a boarding pass.

c. Internet charges- the daily allowable limit for internet charge
reimbursement is $25.00 per day maximum during a SCHEDULED LAYOVER HOTEL.
Receipts/paid hotel folios must be submitted for all internet charges in
order to be reimbursed.

d. Phone call charges- A receipt should be submitted for Phone call
charges. If you do not have a receipt, the phone numbers called need to
be reference on your expense report.

Updated General information for Non-Travel Related Expense Reports:

1. ALL ORIGINAL receipts are required for non-travel submittals.

a. Uniforms- need original itemized receipt (white copy) from Uniform
Solutions. All other vendor receipts must list items purchased.

b. FAA- need original itemized receipt which bears the name, address and
phone number of the Doctor/Physician. The exception is physicals performed
by an existing, pre-approved physician who direct bills Fedex. That list
can be obtained by email at [email protected].

c. Passports- to be reimbursed for expediting fees, you must have PRE-
APPROVAL by your ACP. The $67 passport fee can be reimbursed with a
receipt or a copy of your passport. Receipts are required for passport
photos.

NON-COMPLIANCE REPORTS: Crew members are notified by email if there are
any records requiring an expense report to be filed. Crew members receive
a copy of their USBank/Visa statement in the mail monthly. A crew member
has a 30 day window to submit reports online after the bid month closes.
If the report is not submitted, Crew Audit will take appropriate action,
which may require a payroll deduction for amounts not validated or
exceeding the value of the crew members' deviation bank.
jax, I don't know what you mean by changed. The way I read it is we got a clarification on the times when the accepted fare in VIPS can be adjusted. Higher... They can't lower the adjusted fare that is in VIPS and that is set on a number of things, the corporate rate of a ticket to be specific. There seems to be a misunderstanding about that. When I worked on this project a couple of years ago, I was able to get a minimum amount set on the domestic accepted fares. That was set on the business rate the company paid for their deadhead tickets. Yeah, I know we can't always get that fare. The later you wait in the month the harder it is to get. Just like anything else, the demand is higher the day before that flight than it was 3 weeks earlier. So the Company has to set some sort of base line. Now, in the cases listed in the FCIF the amount can be increased to match what the company actually spent, or would have spent, on the ticket. But the bottom line on this deal is that Fred will pay whatever it costs to get you to your scheduled destination if you go as scheduled.
As far as repeating items that are common knowledge, you assume that everybody on the property now was here when they put out the last clarification on this. That's the problem with "Management by FCIF" Do you require the new hires to read everything that is still current in all the FCIF files we have.
So if I read you right, maybe you misunderstood the FCIF a bit and assumed that these new rules were going to do away with the entire accepted fare system as we know it. Unless I missed a meeting, I don't think so...
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Old 05-13-2007 | 07:24 PM
  #65  
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Default

Originally Posted by sparkmo
I believe that the accepted fare issue is yet another rollover by those that are avoiding a confrontation. Mid trips are shot to he!! and need fixed immediately.

An excellent time for our new contract admin chief to get his/her feet wet before becoming a manager!

Cheers

Mo
WTF does that mean?
Reply
Old 05-13-2007 | 11:18 PM
  #66  
Cessna180DVR's Avatar
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From: MD-11 CAPT
Default

Originally Posted by fecav8r
WTF does that mean?
I believe he's referring to the new job of our last grievance committee chairman. Just my guess.
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Old 05-13-2007 | 11:30 PM
  #67  
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From: MD-11 CAPT
Default

Originally Posted by fecav8r
jax, I don't know what you mean by changed. The way I read it is we got a clarification on the times when the accepted fare in VIPS can be adjusted. Higher... They can't lower the adjusted fare that is in VIPS and that is set on a number of things, the corporate rate of a ticket to be specific. There seems to be a misunderstanding about that. When I worked on this project a couple of years ago, I was able to get a minimum amount set on the domestic accepted fares. That was set on the business rate the company paid for their deadhead tickets. Yeah, I know we can't always get that fare. The later you wait in the month the harder it is to get. Just like anything else, the demand is higher the day before that flight than it was 3 weeks earlier. So the Company has to set some sort of base line. Now, in the cases listed in the FCIF the amount can be increased to match what the company actually spent, or would have spent, on the ticket. But the bottom line on this deal is that Fred will pay whatever it costs to get you to your scheduled destination if you go as scheduled.
As far as repeating items that are common knowledge, you assume that everybody on the property now was here when they put out the last clarification on this. That's the problem with "Management by FCIF" Do you require the new hires to read everything that is still current in all the FCIF files we have.
So if I read you right, maybe you misunderstood the FCIF a bit and assumed that these new rules were going to do away with the entire accepted fare system as we know it. Unless I missed a meeting, I don't think so...
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I read the new guidance to mean that your deviation bank would only be what was posted in VIPS. This goes against what we have been doing for years under the above posted FCIF, specifically item 1. c. where if the company had to buy a ticket that exceeded the acceptable fare amount, then you would be able to increase the amount of your deviation bank by the difference of that ticket.

Steve McCabe reinforced this in his latest egram where he states: "Remember if you deviate you are only entitled to what the ‘accepted fare’ in VIPS indicates."

If this is not the new company position then someone needs to let us know what it is. Personally, I feel the precedent has been set under the last contract and this one regarding the deviation bank by FCIF 05-0315. This guidance was not renegotiated and is the set precedent. Could you shed some light on this for us?
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Old 05-14-2007 | 06:07 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Cessna180DVR
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I read the new guidance to mean that your deviation bank would only be what was posted in VIPS. This goes against what we have been doing for years under the above posted FCIF, specifically item 1. c. where if the company had to buy a ticket that exceeded the acceptable fare amount, then you would be able to increase the amount of your deviation bank by the difference of that ticket.

Steve McCabe reinforced this in his latest egram where he states: "Remember if you deviate you are only entitled to what the ‘accepted fare’ in VIPS indicates."

If this is not the new company position then someone needs to let us know what it is. Personally, I feel the precedent has been set under the last contract and this one regarding the deviation bank by FCIF 05-0315. This guidance was not renegotiated and is the set precedent. Could you shed some light on this for us?
No, that is not what that FCIF said. I'm not really sure what the hell the FCIF tried to say but I don't think it meant that whatever the company spent on a ticket they would automatically make it the accepted fare. And no, that's not what we have done for years. The only time I have known the accepted fare to change is on x pairings and revisions.
And again, I don't know what you mean by past precedent. The contract is pretty clear on what makes up your deviation bank. And the new contract says pretty much the same thing. And it says nothing about what the company spends on a ticket. And the way I read it, Steve's email says exactly that. I would like to see any actual example of a deviation bank that was increased due to what the company spent on a ticket, other than a revision or an x pairing. And here's the logic behind that. If the company revises a pairing, they have to pay the going rate for a ticket. So they throw you a bone and say since we had to pay that, that's what you get for your bank. Same goes for an X pairing.
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Old 05-14-2007 | 06:22 AM
  #69  
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From: 767 FO
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Luckily, the FCIF as written is not being enforced so I have not had a problem with it. But our deviation system does force you to game the system to get the most from your deviation bank. Here are two examples:

1. Pairing is ARPT Stby at IND. Thursday nite launch to FNT and FNT hotel. Upon arrival at hotel CRS says we are released for the week and asks if we want to deviate. Capt says yes for all three as the F/O and I scream NOOOOOOOO. Capt asks what is the accepted fare and CRS says $265. F/O and I refuse to deviate. 45 min later pairing is updated and the published fare is $565. F/O and I now deviate. No one flew the revised pairing as scheduled but the bank stayed at $550.

2. Pairing is weeklong MDT-IND, accepted fare MDT-Mem is $290. I am the only one that does not deviate. Thursday night Global travel forced to cut me a ticket on Delta; bank increases to $606 for everyone. I now deviate and bank stays at $606.

Who does gaming the system hurt:

1. Me if I hose up the deviation timeline.

2. The scheduled airlines who are forced to cut tickets that will never be used.

Bottomline for you new guys, don't backend deviate until you are 100% sure of your travel plans (normally about the time you print the boarding pass) especially around holidays or spring break.
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Old 05-14-2007 | 06:33 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG
Luckily, the FCIF as written is not being enforced so I have not had a problem with it. But our deviation system does force you to game the system to get the most from your deviation bank. Here are two examples:

1. Pairing is ARPT Stby at IND. Thursday nite launch to FNT and FNT hotel. Upon arrival at hotel CRS says we are released for the week and asks if we want to deviate. Capt says yes for all three as the F/O and I scream NOOOOOOOO. Capt asks what is the accepted fare and CRS says $265. F/O and I refuse to deviate. 45 min later pairing is updated and the published fare is $565. F/O and I now deviate. No one flew the revised pairing as scheduled but the bank stayed at $550.

2. Pairing is weeklong MDT-IND, accepted fare MDT-Mem is $290. I am the only one that does not deviate. Thursday night Global travel forced to cut me a ticket on Delta; bank increases to $606 for everyone. I now deviate and bank stays at $606.

Who does gaming the system hurt:

1. Me if I hose up the deviation timeline.

2. The scheduled airlines who are forced to cut tickets that will never be used.

Bottomline for you new guys, don't backend deviate until you are 100% sure of your travel plans (normally about the time you print the boarding pass) especially around holidays or spring break.
Unless the system has drastically changed in the last year, the bank is not $606. I wouldn't use that money till I confirmed it with Crew audit. The only way I can see that happening is if it is a revision from the original pairing, then the FCIF is correct.
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