We vote on a contract that only lasts 5 years but NO VOTE on something that we will have to live with forever. That is what the real bad part is!!! and our own union did it to us not the Company!!!! I to signed up for the recall.

I thought about wearing a black armband, but that clashes with the uniform policy. So I am going to start wearing my ALPA lanyard backwards as a sign of mourning:(. It's all black on the back side, and if someone asks, I'll say it's because I'm part of the ignored majority.

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I signed the recall as well. Can anybody tell me how we find out when Block Rep/LEC Chairmen/MEC reps terms are up? I have had enough of DW "asking forgiveness" instead of "asking permission".

P.S. Can't decide whether to throw my ALPA pin and lanyard away, or UPS it back to the union office.....Thoughts?

Were the pin Upside Down and the lanyard backwards... that should send a message. We should also look into to getting bag tags that say "My MEC does NOT speak for me on age 65!!!"

Quit?
 

Go ahead, all of you; still get your dues though. Makes more sense to have a vote if you're paying anyway. :D

:mad: Do Not Quit!! We are going to need your vote during the next contract negotiations, when we vote a contract that has NO pay raise for WB captains
and we take all the money the company gives us for NB crews and WB FO's.
BTW I feel this MEC represents the Lavender's, Henry's and Conway's of this world...
Recall them!!
Los1

deleted deleted

The Block 5 Rep begins his tenure as MEC Vice-Chairman soon, and he will leave the Block Rep seat vacant. That's my block. Whaddya think? ;)




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Brother--even if I disagree time to time--I know you are an honorable man. You'd be super.

But--keep your "listening ears" open as I say to my kids.

Its time for change.

At this point we have started a petition for recall at [email protected]

If you will send your name and emp# and something to the effect. "I wish to recall our MEC chairman Dave Webb" I promise that your info will be kept confidential until a substantial number of pilots sign it, so it won't be a handful of pilots that can be singled out.

PM me if you've got any questions.

DON'T QUIT YOUR UNION!!! TAKE IT BACK!!!

Hand carry them.:rolleyes:

Inquiring minds want to know
 

Hey HerkDriver welcome to the Airlinepilot.com forum. :rolleyes:
In your ten posts you've changed from quiting to running for office, which is it?? If it's running for office, how about sharing your views on the numerous other issues that entail running a union of 4500+ free thinkers?? Do you have a opinion on any other issues that concern your block seniority/this pilot group other than how you been hosed by DW???

I need to send DW a letter. Anyone got any red paper I can borrow?

get the paper at
http://www.loss-prevention-systems.c...inkos_logo.gif

I'm Block 5, and I vote. So, what are you thinking?

You will have about 3000 USAirways East pilots on the way out of the ALPA door as well. With the screwing we have taken on seniority integration favoring the AWA pilots, I would fully expect a decertification of ALPA on this property as well.

And your point is.....?

I'm undecided as to whether or not I will quit; I want to, but am starting to see that other avenues might exist to affect change in our union and all of them require me to be a member to do so. If this means running against my block rep or making motions to have our elected officers removed from their positions, so be it. As for my opinions on the other issues that are involved in running a union, that's not what this thread is about. We are talking about how this Age 60 mess evolved within our union. I will tell you right now, though, that regardless of the issue at hand, I would be a staunch supporter of whatever the majority of our pilots wanted and would be sure to accuartely and fairly measure it before I moved forward on life-changing initiatives. In any union position, I see that as your duty and responsibility.

As far as my six years with the company and my ten (now eleven) posts, my point was not "how DW hosed ME", but rather how our union leadership failed in its responsibility to represent the majority opinion of our dues paying members. 66.1% of our pilots did NOT want a vote for changing the Age 60 rule! To me, the message from our union leadership is "Your dues count, but your opinion doesn't. Why don't you leave the hard thinking to us." I, like many other pilots in our union did EVERYTHING we were asked to do to support this union during the recent negotiations. Was it too much to ask for some support and loyalty to be returned to our crew force when their opinion was clear. A "No" vote by DW & our MEC would not have changed the final results of this week's Executive Board meeting; ALPA would hve gotten it's "seat at the table", but at least our voices and opinions would have been made known. I personally don't care about the Age 60 rule. Laws change. Seniority rules. I can live with that. It is part of the profession that I chose and I accept that. What I cannot tolerate, though, is having what was clearly a majority opinion completely disregarded. I think that as a dues paying member in good standing with this union, I am entitled to be accurately and fairly represented. I would hope that all members expect to get that in return for their hard earned money. Fly Safe.

These yahoos just can't help themselves can they? Ignoring the will of the majority on Age 60 wasn't enough, now they are attempting to ignore their own policy manual. ALPA merger policy is crystal clear in how seniority lists are to be merged between two ALPA carriers and the binding arbitration process that occurs if no consensus can be reached. This process was used in UsAir/America West merger and a result was reached-one that has caused considerable consternation as all awards do. According to it's own policy manual, ALPA is compelled to defend any award reached through the process. There is no grey area here. However today the Executive Board today voted 18-1 to direct Prater to continue to use ALPA resources to achieve the goals of ALPA merger policy. I'll wager that the one dissenter was from America West and not our own DW. The fact that they are even considering this shows how lost ALPA has become lately. It matters not whether we as individuals agree with the award or not, the policy is clear here and it's made that way for solid reasons. Like age 60, these guys are again going off the reservation whenever it suits them. You think retroactivity for Age 60 is bad, if they actually overturn on an award for the first time in ALPA history they leave a wide open path for all of those previously 'fruitless' seniority lawsuits(including our own) to be seriously considered. Pure genius Lloyd.

Let's see. ALPA let scabs back into the union, I think they will be able to make room for HerkDriver if he has a change of heart after a while, particularly since he will be paying the maintenance fee anyway.

I'm not advocating quitting, although I am disgusted and can't believe I have to give up 2% of my earnings for these hacks to throw away. I still feel we need to stand united against the company and thus we still need a strong union. Unfortunately, DW and friends just threw that away, so we will have to clean house and try to rebuild what they destroyed. Please help us do so.

FJ

Just to clarify, I wasn't advocating quitting the union. I was recommending that other people who want to quit should take a deep breath and reconsider quitting before doing so, that after a few months they would realize that they should remain members and not quit. I think you've got my positions mixed up.

The point is that there is going to be a mass exodus of ALPA members leaving.

Sorry, Deuce. I meant to say the HerkDriver shouldn't quit. I will edit previous post.

FJ

I am going to watch this process for change closely. I am afraid that the only thing that will get ALPA to listen is MONEY or the lack of it. We can all stomp our feet until we are red in the face - but I doubt it will help.

A strong union against the company is worthless if the representatives fail to represent the majority.

My 2 cents.

That would be a very big mistake indded for who would that benefit in the end?.......................Managment at the Table!

It's somewhat a Catch22. It's like saying what's better - The guy who you know wants to screw your wife and does, or your best friend who does it when you're out of town. Both instances suck (for those who like their wives), but it's worse when someone you think you can trust, turns out to be someone you can't.

I have sad it before.........If you are that unhappy or betrayed do something about it. Quitting isn't an option, because with NO UNION or a busted one doesn't do any of us any good and MGT will RAPE us. (not just the guys who you feel sold you out.........but all of us)

If it was a guy (friend like your example) doing your wife and you caught him, would you just sit by an watch? or would you maybe........"Escort" Him off the property and maybe escort him off this earth.....and deal with the wife later.


No , If you really do feel betrayed (after this) then get others who feel the same way. Do something and begin the recall process. That is your right and nobody can stop you. I personally think it would be a mistake, but that is just me.

But if you do, be ready to put up or shut up......because few 'Good People" are going to want to step up to the plate when the house is cleaned, so be ready to put your name in the ring.

Yes sir, 100% agree that quitting isn't an option.

Do I think a recall will go through, not really but it has seemed to at least let people know that you, I and at least 4000 other guys want their voice heard. I hope in the next elections, that people will remember how they felt when DW and company basically said "pay your dues, and I'll do the thinking for you."

They have already one this round. There is no way we will be able to come together as a group after this.

Now f-ng way.

So Dave, was it worth it?

Destroy the unity we spent 5 years developing in about 2 weeks time. Nice job.

No way you can spin this redeye, the damage is done, it has nothing at all to do with Age 60 either.

How could it be any worse? Fred himself could be representing us and we'd be just as well off.

I don't care if there is any LEC/MEC. Vacancies would do less damage than these hacks just did.

Now this is the bomb throwing anarchist in me....but hang on and read on..

Using ALPA recall procedures to recall one of it's own is a long uphill battle. The people in power wrote the rules to stay in power. A person in power never makes it easy to get de-throned. It doesn't matter if your talking about our Chairman, the President or the Speaker.

While I have added my name to the recall list, there is an easier method, however it is dangerous because it's possible we may get what we ask for.

Union decertification. Don't tune out just yet, let me explain. For NRLB to call for a de-cert election, at least 30% of the union membership (in good standind, i imagine) sign a de-cert petition. Then the NRLB arrives on property and after 60 days calls for a vote. If the current union gets greater than 50% of the vote, it stays. If the union gets 50% or less it goes. Those are the ground rules.

Now for the strategy, if our MEC is so tied to 'doing the right thing,' what would or should they do if presented with a NLRB de-cert petition of greater than the required 30% and given the option of resigning and the NRLB de-cert petition goes in the trash; or staying in office while the NRLB petition goes via FedEx to Atlanta. And things can get ugly. Remember, it wasn't the general membership that scratched the rash, it was our MEC which purposefully disregarded the "overwhelming majority" (their words, not mine) for the good of the union. If the MEC really and truly lived and breathed "for the good of the union", what should their honorable actions be when presented with a 30%+ NRLB de-cert petition?

And remember, nature abhors a vacuum.....

Just a thought from the far right.....

Decert is smoking in a gas station.

I don't like what our MEC did. I think we can fix that in house. If we lose our collective bargaining unit now, however, the ability to make up ground later might be severely hindered.

That aside--there is no reason anyone on the current MEC need be in office in 2 years. That is OUR job to fix.

If you're not a member, you can't vote.
If you can't vote, you can't throw the bums out.
That's it in a nutshell. Stay and vote, period, dot!

Agreed!! Let get new furniture, not burn down the house we just built.

I was so proud that we were informed and voted to achieve a contract without threats or a work action. Now, I am so disappointed to learn that we are an under-educated mob whose voice was ignored because we obviously don't know "the right thing to do".

In the near term, we need to hold our current LECs & MEC very accountable for their most recent methods and actions. Keep a close eye on them and be more involved. And make sure the next election is conducted without any rubber stamps.

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Newbies, listen to this man. If I had a nickle for every pilot who's career didn't go as planned, my retirement fund worries would be over!
Stick

I haven't read the posts on this thread, but I want to say that:

1. I will NEVER leave ALPA. If the pilot group picks another union, then fine, but I will always be a supporting member of that group. Trust me- I've worked at 6 airlines, three of which were non-union and if you wish that hell on us then you deserve genital mutilation.

sorry~

2. I WILL vote AGAINST ALL of the people currently in control of ALPA, to include the current FDX MEC, and the blow-dried $475,000 per year rectal-pits that run this union. They've just "caved", despite the fact that the vast majority of the members are totally against this change in the laws.

For what reason? So they can have a "say" in the final wording? What a gigantic flying load of BULL****! ALPA has little to say no matter what; basically, if congress and/or the FAA decides to change the laws, then a bunch of wealthy pilots who don't like it are going to get laughed at. And a bunch of wealthy pilots who DO like it are only going to get laughed at because of their stupidity!

Listen- this is how it works: unless you are lining some politicians' pockets then you are nothing in this country.

Hello? Want to keep the age 60 rule? put about $10 million in some Capitol-hill clown's pants and you can send the geezers to their yachts...

Sorry, the term "geezer" was a bit harsh. I probably use more hair dye than anyone else here....

N