I feel like RESIGNING ALPA
 

:( Since I have been an ALPA member (10yrs) I have not felt like they have been on my side. At the regional level we were treated like a nuissance, now at the Major level there is no change b/c they still do not nor ever seem to have represented my interest. Let me start by saying I had many discussions w/ Prater before he was elected about the Age 60 issue, he bluntly told me the poll on Age 60 rule was wrong and that he was ALL FOR changing it no matter what the overall membership wanted. Then back when we had our (FDX) contract road show I questioned our Negotiating committee about VEBA and other contract benefits for those (I believe) age 54-59 which give no benefits to those that are junior/younger (ie the junior are usually the younger folks). This recent decision by our MEC and ALPA national shows me where there true allegiance lies with the top 10%. This truly is a topic that is going to hurt the unity of the membership if it has not already done so.

Retroactivity in my opinion is also a senior issue that was pushed for by our SENIOR MEC. I have respect for everyone's opinion but the majority should set the precedent.

So 10 yrs of taxation without representation; please someone tell why I should not become a nonmember on checkoff? I have already thrown away my FDX ALPA lanyard because they apparently do not represent the best interest of me and my family.:mad:

A long time ago, I learned a lesson the hard way.... Never trust a fat man with a mustache.

Not sure what the two have to do with each other, but it sure sounded good/made me feel better at the time.

Oh boy, I might have just invoked the wrath of FMWMAASR (That would be Fat Men With Mustaches Against Age Sixty Rule).

Maybe you could trade your ALPA lanyard in for a WWFMWMAASRD? Lanyard (That would be a What Would Fat Men With Mustaches Against Age Sixty Rule Do? Lanyard)

:p

If you don't laugh about this you might cry!!

If you quit ALPA you lose your ability to vote, to be part of a recall, and like it or not you will look like all the other current Pro-Management Cheap-A$$ Non-Union scoundrels out there...
Your choice, but if you quit the Union you are giving up a chance to at least be part of the solution, and will embolden the company by becoming part of the problem (the company loves this issue for this reason and so much more).

[quote=Twiceskunkeddog;170304]

A long time ago, I learned a lesson the hard way.... Never trust a fat man with a mustache.

quote]

now that is just too funny!

Seniority numbers of MEC members:

412
652
1276
1820
2054
2742
3207
3920
457
2187
415
810


Yepp, it's loaded. :rolleyes:




.

3/4 are in the top 50% seniority.

1/2 are in the top 25%(or close) seniority.

Only 1/4 are in the bottom 50% seniority.

I never realized how senior the MEC was.

How about: Term limits for MEC and Block Reps? I"ll vote for that.

Quitting today.
 

My frustration with the FDX MEC & the age 60 rule lies not with the fact that the rule is changing (or the decision for ALPA to switch positions) but rather with the fact that at last count, 70% of our pilots didn't want it to change. My understanding is that this was a number from several years ago, but that it still pretty much represents the general atmosphere of our crewmembers today. The MEC has thrown the "62% want us to be a part of the change" number around enough, but never came out and said what percentage of our crewmembers wanted us to stand up and fight against the change in the first place. To me, Captain Webb's vote for the change is essentially the same thing as if the majority of the citizen's of a state voted for one presidential candidate, but at the electoral college, the state's votes were cast for the other candidate "just because it looked like the other guy (or gal) was going to win". I would have supported the union on this if they had carried the majority's opinion about the change with him to the table and atleast tried to make a stand; I am awaiting a call from the MEC right now to find out what the exact percentage was of our crewmembers who don't or didn't want the change....if it is 50.1% or greater, I plan on resigning my ALPA membership effective this afternoon. UPDATE: Just got the call from the MEC and 66.1% of our pilots didn't/don't want the change! Looks like I'm gonig to become the very thing I hate the most...

They already serve for set terms, and the voter turnout is pathetic. If you want them out, run against them.





.

TonyC, now match up the seniority numbers with their age.....

It seems like the rule change just benefits guys who are right at 60. Honestly, who doesn't want to retire at 60. If you can't save enough money as a Captain at a major airline and be comfortable, it would serve you right. I'd be happy to retire at 60, and you know what, at 21 I'm already planning for that day. Then I can get back to doing what I love more than anything on my terms.

I quit my high school baseball team because I got ****ed at one of the assistant coaches. 48 hours later I was over it and begged the head coach to let me back on the team. He said no. One of the biggest regrets of my life. Quitting the union over this is kind of like that. In the not too distant future, this will all be over and those who quit ALPA will be regretting it, and may not ever be back "on the team" regardless of when/if they rejoin later. I'd recommend those cotemplating quitting take a deep breath, wait a month or two, then reconsider.

I wish you the career that you dream of. It doesn't happen that way for many of us. Just when it is that you plan on getting that left seat? What will you do if you lose it and then have to start over? Once, twice, three times? Sick spouse, sick children, a spouse that leaves and takes half of your well planned savings and retirement with him/her.

This is going to be hard to hear, but at 21 you have a lot of growing up to do and a long way to go before you can speak with any authority on what an airline career should look like. Life holds many unplanned suprises, I hope you manage to avoid all of them.

Don't quit.

Riddle for the disgruntled masses at FDX...

What's the difference between

non-member at FDX and

a dues paying FDX union member who sided with the majority on the age 60 issue....

Nothing. You both pay dues and the MEC still voted against your wishes...You just get to wear the lanyard.

HerkDriver...CORRECT!! You win the booby prize, 5 more years of 2 in, 2 out night hub turns at the hub of your choice.

Oh and lets not forget that the LAST item on the list of ALPA's to do list when "movin' and shakin'" at the big table, is to protect your ability to retire at 60, if you want, without penalty.

The very last item...if that don't beat all...

As petty as it may seem. No more hat's and no more lanyard's for awhile for me. Like our most junior guy just hired - purple and orange. I need to step back and take a look at what my MEC just did to me.

RV

I don't blame you for quitting.

Albie, how is that recall thing going? Send me a pm if you want....

My better half has "asked" me to take 24 hours before I do anything I'll regret. I've already got the information needed to process my resignation; I'm sure my mind won't be changed by tomorrow.

For the record, I did EVERYTHING this union asked of me during contract negotiations: no draft, no vlt, picketing, hat, lanyard, blah blah blah. I still won't fly a DP because I can see the damage it does and want thing to be better for ALL of us. I just can't get past the fact that Capt W chose to ignore the 66.1% who wanted a "No" vote at the Executive Board. The motion still would have passed, but atleast our voices would have been heard....

ditto...you can't tell me our Chairman didn't know the final tally prior to his vote...so my question (like HerkDriver's statement) is:

"Why did our MEC Chairman chose to ignore the wishes of a majority of the membership?"

If he had voted "NO", the sky would not have fallen, the sun would still rise in the East and set on the West Coast and ALPA's position would still be for a change to the Age 60 rule and they could still sit at the grand table of influence pedaling.

With a "NO" vote he would not have pi$$ed off a vast majority of his membership.

The anarchist in me wonders if it just might be easier to de-cert the union than vote the buggers out!

http://www.unionfacts.com/articles/m...tification.cfm

Exactly my point. ALPA still would have gotten the change they wanted, but the MEC could have demonstrated it's resolve to go with what the majority clearly indicated it wanted. This wouldn't have weakened ALPA's capabilities one bit as they moved onto the next hurdle of trying to help formulate the legislation. FYI - The Executive Board was briefed on the results of the surveys on Tuesday...they clearly knew all of the numbers before the voting took place.

Yea, they can go to Canada with Alec Baldwin, instead! :rolleyes:

[quote=TonyC;170323]Seniority numbers of MEC members:

412
652
1276
1820
2054
2742
3207
3920
457
2187
415
810


Yepp, it's loaded. :rolleyes:

And....when was the last time Webb wanted anything and they voted against him? All we hear is "today the MEC unanimously voted.".......(fill in the blank))
The power lies with Webb, and he wields it as HE sees fit! And therein, Tony, is the problem that most of us have with this process.

Don't quit. Get involved. Vote.

Tony--you know I respect your opinion. But you are repeatedly defending those who by their actions have demonstrated they really don't have much loyalty down. You have a tremendous amount of loyalty to ALPA, and have seen why its so important. I told you this before--I think you'd be a great part of the NEXT group of ALPA leadership.

I personally think the "right" thing to do is for DW to step down. By diving on the grenade and demonstrating that he is willing to share the sacrifice he might send a message that would help re-unify the union.

I think both the block 7 and block 8 rep should also resign and allow some fresh blood into the mix. If they don't--when there is another election--you can bet there will be some new talent asking for the job. Nothing personal against either guy--but the way to unifying our union is putting some people in the office that guys can rally behind. Right now a lot of guys feel sold out, and I think a change would make it easier to move forward.

I've got a list of names of guys I think would be solid. I imagine most of us know a person or two who'd do a good job. Its time for a change.

That petition that was started by someone else is still open. That recall petition someone asked about is [email protected]. It is a petition to recall Dave Webb. It is bascially worthless, as there are too many layers of insulation between the membership and the MEC chairman. However, its a good chance to vent and if the starter of the petition shows up at an MEC meeting with a list of several hundred (or thousand) names it might at least convey the concern and allow a starting point for some changes.

Again--quitting the union is going to bite us in the @ss when we need each other down the road. However, it is obvious the junior guys are upset and very disenfranchised--I certainly am. What I think we need to do is not ditch our union, but reclaim the union as a union that works for all of us. That will mean some work and a bit more involvement than we've had in the past (yes....I'm guilty) but the choice of FDX ALPA, an independent union, or non member status still favors being a part of ALPA. Its a family fight right now--I'm mad--but I'm not quitting.

However--Dave Webb is just white noise now to me. I'm for any new block rep that promises to A) listen and communicate more with their block and B) rid us of him at the first chance.

SOLD down the River...
 

Good thing we negotiated mandatory dues/Agency shop, huh?

Now ALPA doesn't have to worry about the membership voting with their feet--or their checkbooks. Pretty shrewd. Otherwise the membership would be leaving in droves.

Which begs the question: When exactly is a majority not a majority??

This whole thing smells. :mad:

Also--don't quit. Just wear your lanyard inside out. A solid black band kinda convey's everyone's feelings, doesn't it.

Change is coming. The good thing in this is the membership will get involved...this galvanization may come in handy later.

I want to know where I can get a "NOTED" lanyard...:D

Membership
 

Here's the deal for me:

I will not quit ALPA over this MEC/LEC leadership debaucle (better described as a lack of cajones). I'm not a quitter, but I have been known to hold a grudge against spineless politicians.

However ...

I have signed up to recall DW. I think the rest of the MEC/LEC are pure yes-men and political cowards. Did anyone -- I mean anyone -- EVER -- suggest a vote of the membership and following their wishes as elected representatives? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

I have also resigned my positions as a P2P rep -- you know the guys who wear the red lanyard and spin the MEC political viewpoint and suppress rumors. I can't support that gig anyomore. No more lanyard for me and I used to be a lanyard freakin' NAZI during negotiations ... my, my how things change. But I'm not quitting ALPA. The stench of being a non-member -- dues checkoff or not -- is too strong for me.

I can't support an action the membership is clearly against. In fact, the numbers in opposition of age 60 are merely poll percentages. What happened to a straight-up vote on such an important issue. The repercussions of this policy shift are ENORMOUS in critical areas of our career progression, quality of life, retirement benefits, seniority, hell you name it and it gets jacked up by this policy change. Prater has caved to political pressure.

I also pulled the plug on the ALPA-PAC. Those guys are awesome! Get paid the big bucks, hob knob around DC, then realize that you are merely a political pawn and worthless ... so you call up the big boys at ALPA and say ... I don't think we can win this, so let's throw in the towel and make it look like a new paradigm shift.

Here's my big picture -- Kiss the B-fund goodbye. Congratulations! You can now work an additional 5 years! Yes, sir ... would you like your coffeee shaken or stirred? Oh, how did that new physical go? I'm sure it was real tough. I bet that 36 days of vacation and $250K is a real biatch ever since you decided to stay on for a few more years!

I used to have a personal policy of buying beers for ANY MEC/LEC, negotiating committee guy, etc. given the opportunity. YEP ... that's freakin' over ... maybe I'll just hock a loogy in it and still pass it over!

No hard feelings DW, really ... it's no big deal -- it's all good.

I'm embarassed for ALPA National and the FedEx MEC. Dave Behnke is rolling over in his grave right about now. It's a shame what politics and money can do to a profession with weak leadership and no resolve.

That about sums it up for me. No, I don't need medication, but it sure feels better now that I've vented. No worries ... my position won't change.




:eek:
LMSS

NKA

Heck, don't wear the lanyard at all, just clip the ID to your shirt pocket and everytime you see a union official ask them when they plan to resign.

Send emails to your block rep expressing your displeasure with their conduct of late and wait for their response. Oh let me guess...it was the right thing to do.

Albie, you say change is coming, however, when is the next election and for which position. Since the Chairman is elected by the LECs, how many years must pass before the requisite majority of LEC reps represent their majority and vote the current Chairman out of office?

or...

"If at least 30 percent of the workers in the bargaining unit sign the petition, then it must be sent to the NLRB's closest regional office, along with a cover sheet, NLRB Form 502. Once the petitions have been received and validated, the NLRB will set a date for the decertification election, usually about 60 days in the future. Individuals on both sides may campaign to sway the employees. When the vote is held, if a majority of the workers who participate favor decertifying the union, or if the vote results in a tie, then the NLRB will officially remove the union's recognition as the bargaining representative of the workers."

http://www.unionfacts.com/articles/m...tification.cfm

Don't you think at least 30% of the overwhelming majority (their words, not mine) would like to send a message of displeasure to our leadership right now!

For those of you thinking of quitting the union...read the above para carefully..."30% of the workers in the bargaining unit sign the petition.."
You gotta be a member to sign the petition.

Well you guys are right, I took a step back relaxed and thought about it. I was just p***ed that my Union does not listen to me or the other 66% (or whatever % it is). Albie you are right about all of it, while I have voted, don't fly DP and did my part last fall as an 11 F/O to help out the negotiations; I/ We need to get alot more Junior folks involved. Living here in MEM now I am going to get involved. I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but I know how to listen and that is what they are not doing. If no one else will step up to run that is brighter than me ( it will not take much) then I will run and campaign like a highschool student body election including posters on the wall and handing out candy. I wonder what would happen if a sophmore was running the Union instead of a sixth year senior. Let us remember that we need to use this board after we decide on the folks to run to get there names out and over to the office on Kirby. I sure hope we can say "MEC/LEC good riddance".

I'm not quitting the union. If any of you quit, you are quitting me and your fellow pilots. WE are the ones that stood shoulder to shoulder two years ago in 90+ degree heat outside the AOC wearing those stupid hats. WE are the ones that didn't fly the VLT/DFT...and the list goes on. WE ARE THE UNION!

Having said that, I just signed up for the recall too. I don't want DW anymore. In fact, I don't want ANY of those wusses pretending to "represent" me anymore!!!:mad:

NoKoolAid -

I can think of no other way to convey my anger and outrage for the MEC right now than to quit ALPA. Yes, the label of non-member isn't appealing to me in the least bit, but my problem with non-members in the past was specifically with the ones who didn't pay. If you were on dues check off, fine, don't be a member...just pay your share. Right now, this seems to be the better choice that to be a part of a union that thinks the word "democracy" and "majority" are just words on their 6th graders spelling test. Obviously, taking surveys when asked, wearing lanyards, buying hats, picketing, attending hub meetings, displaying bag tags and all of the other little things that I did to show support for the MEC didn't amount to a hill of beans. I thought that the massive amount of support displayed for the union this past year might be returned by respecting the majority opinion...I was wrong. Think of it this way and it will only frustrate you more: 66.1 percent of the guys that were picketing for a better contract, that flew in on their days off for union meeting, that turned down draft trip to show their solidarity...66.1 percent of those guys just got told "Thanks for your opinion, but I'll think we'll pass on it."

Dammmnnnn, NOKoolAid, I like your grit. Hock a loogy for me. I don't run with that crowd and wouldn't have the chance to add a little 'essence' to their cold ones.

Herk, don't cut your nose off. I know that you're "urinated" right now, as am I, but don't do anything that you will regret later on. Keep the faith.
fbh

Which begs the question: When exactly is a majority not a majority??

Easy, a majority is a minority when ALPA conducts a poll and the result isn't to their liking. It's got to be in the bylaws somewhere!

How do I get to any and all petitions to remove DW from office or remove ALPA from the premises?

I would expect nothing less from anybody on this forum that disagrees with today's actions by OUR Union leadership than writing a pointed letter to all Union officials that you feel integral to this decision.
I have personally written my block rep and told him I expected him to resign his position due to his lack of representation of the stance of his specific constituents.
And for those who say "what next"?...I intend to run for his position as soon as it is vacated or in the next election should he not do the right thing; which in doing so would also allow him "more time with his kids".
DW and his cronies are NOT our representatives. They clearly represent only their interests or positions, not ours.

Ok, here's a post with so meat and some legs. If your PO'ed, do somthing constructive about it. Just don't quit. If you like the idea of a recall, get it going. If you want change things take their office or join a committee. Well said Ham.

alpa
 

Guys...

From an outsider looking in, what does Fedex get out of alpa that they could not get with an inhouse union? Before you say "a seat at the table", it seems to me the seat you were assigned was a high chair. Out of all the alpa airlines, fedex has the most pilots affected by the proposed rule change to 65. Other airlines may stagnate some, but fedex pilots actually run the risk of losing relative seat seniority by ropes moving back to window seats.

I know this is a "done deal", but don't agree with the argument that you have to be onboard to affect policy. Maintaining a "hell no" attitude may not win you any friends at national alpa, but what have they done for you lately?

JMO

Pilot7576