I'm undecided as to whether or not I will quit; I want to, but am starting to see that other avenues might exist to affect change in our union and all of them require me to be a member to do so. If this means running against my block rep or making motions to have our elected officers removed from their positions, so be it. As for my opinions on the other issues that are involved in running a union, that's not what this thread is about. We are talking about how this Age 60 mess evolved within our union. I will tell you right now, though, that regardless of the issue at hand, I would be a staunch supporter of whatever the majority of our pilots wanted and would be sure to accuartely and fairly measure it before I moved forward on life-changing initiatives. In any union position, I see that as your duty and responsibility.

As far as my six years with the company and my ten (now eleven) posts, my point was not "how DW hosed ME", but rather how our union leadership failed in its responsibility to represent the majority opinion of our dues paying members. 66.1% of our pilots did NOT want a vote for changing the Age 60 rule! To me, the message from our union leadership is "Your dues count, but your opinion doesn't. Why don't you leave the hard thinking to us." I, like many other pilots in our union did EVERYTHING we were asked to do to support this union during the recent negotiations. Was it too much to ask for some support and loyalty to be returned to our crew force when their opinion was clear. A "No" vote by DW & our MEC would not have changed the final results of this week's Executive Board meeting; ALPA would hve gotten it's "seat at the table", but at least our voices and opinions would have been made known. I personally don't care about the Age 60 rule. Laws change. Seniority rules. I can live with that. It is part of the profession that I chose and I accept that. What I cannot tolerate, though, is having what was clearly a majority opinion completely disregarded. I think that as a dues paying member in good standing with this union, I am entitled to be accurately and fairly represented. I would hope that all members expect to get that in return for their hard earned money. Fly Safe.

These yahoos just can't help themselves can they? Ignoring the will of the majority on Age 60 wasn't enough, now they are attempting to ignore their own policy manual. ALPA merger policy is crystal clear in how seniority lists are to be merged between two ALPA carriers and the binding arbitration process that occurs if no consensus can be reached. This process was used in UsAir/America West merger and a result was reached-one that has caused considerable consternation as all awards do. According to it's own policy manual, ALPA is compelled to defend any award reached through the process. There is no grey area here. However today the Executive Board today voted 18-1 to direct Prater to continue to use ALPA resources to achieve the goals of ALPA merger policy. I'll wager that the one dissenter was from America West and not our own DW. The fact that they are even considering this shows how lost ALPA has become lately. It matters not whether we as individuals agree with the award or not, the policy is clear here and it's made that way for solid reasons. Like age 60, these guys are again going off the reservation whenever it suits them. You think retroactivity for Age 60 is bad, if they actually overturn on an award for the first time in ALPA history they leave a wide open path for all of those previously 'fruitless' seniority lawsuits(including our own) to be seriously considered. Pure genius Lloyd.

Let's see. ALPA let scabs back into the union, I think they will be able to make room for HerkDriver if he has a change of heart after a while, particularly since he will be paying the maintenance fee anyway.

I'm not advocating quitting, although I am disgusted and can't believe I have to give up 2% of my earnings for these hacks to throw away. I still feel we need to stand united against the company and thus we still need a strong union. Unfortunately, DW and friends just threw that away, so we will have to clean house and try to rebuild what they destroyed. Please help us do so.

FJ

Just to clarify, I wasn't advocating quitting the union. I was recommending that other people who want to quit should take a deep breath and reconsider quitting before doing so, that after a few months they would realize that they should remain members and not quit. I think you've got my positions mixed up.

The point is that there is going to be a mass exodus of ALPA members leaving.

Sorry, Deuce. I meant to say the HerkDriver shouldn't quit. I will edit previous post.

FJ

I am going to watch this process for change closely. I am afraid that the only thing that will get ALPA to listen is MONEY or the lack of it. We can all stomp our feet until we are red in the face - but I doubt it will help.

A strong union against the company is worthless if the representatives fail to represent the majority.

My 2 cents.

That would be a very big mistake indded for who would that benefit in the end?.......................Managment at the Table!

It's somewhat a Catch22. It's like saying what's better - The guy who you know wants to screw your wife and does, or your best friend who does it when you're out of town. Both instances suck (for those who like their wives), but it's worse when someone you think you can trust, turns out to be someone you can't.

I have sad it before.........If you are that unhappy or betrayed do something about it. Quitting isn't an option, because with NO UNION or a busted one doesn't do any of us any good and MGT will RAPE us. (not just the guys who you feel sold you out.........but all of us)

If it was a guy (friend like your example) doing your wife and you caught him, would you just sit by an watch? or would you maybe........"Escort" Him off the property and maybe escort him off this earth.....and deal with the wife later.


No , If you really do feel betrayed (after this) then get others who feel the same way. Do something and begin the recall process. That is your right and nobody can stop you. I personally think it would be a mistake, but that is just me.

But if you do, be ready to put up or shut up......because few 'Good People" are going to want to step up to the plate when the house is cleaned, so be ready to put your name in the ring.