We'll never know, will we?

As to our experts, lobbyists, politically connected folks - their careers aren't harmed by this legislation, so they might have a different perspective. Threaten them with a comparable pay loss and see how hard they want to fight then.

(As a side note, I am also an AOPA member, and it sure is a contrast, watching the war being fought over user fees. Another "done deal" from Marion Blakey, but AOPA apperently hasn't got the word.....)

I'll give you MY perspective - you want to talk about leadership, let's talk leadership. Let's talk about the power of symbolism. About leaders who are willing to get down to the troop level and demonstrate that we're all in this together.

ALL Dave would have to do is say, "Guys I know this is a kick in the crotch. Let's find some ways to lessen the blow. How about a commitee of 5 F/O's and 5 captains who can meet and come up with ways to spread the wealth a little." Not much, maybe, but at least an acknowledgement that he represents ALL of us, not the widebody captains.

How about all the MEC telling us, in writing, what they plan to do at sixty. "I voted for this but I do not intend to profit from it." Again, symbolism.

And Redeye, this ain't the Navy, and we don't need an officer corps, thank you. That sh!t'll work on you when you're 22 but not now.

Speaking of which, you keep saying things like, "Is this your first airline?" or whether I've been in leadership (yes) or in the military (barely). So let me ask you one: Were you ever an F/O with kids? Did your wife stay home to raise them? How seriously would you want your union to take it if your upgrade was going to be delayed? Would you want them to go nuclear? Or just take the word of the inside-the-beltway professionals and cave like a house of cards, hoping for a few crumbs from the table of the congress?

Think of how hard you, Pappa Bear with some cubs at home depending on you, would have fought for $3150 a month....

[QUOTE=RedeyeAV8r;171474]
Isn't it because of ALPA that probation even exists at FedEx? I have heard that probation didn't even exist before the latest round of ALPA.

Not true. I've been here since 2000 and probation was here then, under FPA.

It is very simple...DW wanted to be able to fight for the guys in the back. If he would have gone with the FDX member majority, he would have had to vote "No" in the meeting. He knew that his "No" vote would be meaningless...He knew that ALPA was going to change their stance. So, if he voted "No" he would not have had a leg to stand on when he wanted to fight for the guys in the back to be able to come up to the front. Because he voted "Yes," he is able to get the caveate for the old folks in the wording of the legislation that ALPA is fighting for.


It is a very simple example of politics at work. I have to give him credit. He had an agenda and he knew what to do to make it work. He will be an ALPA National rep someday....good or bad.

I don't know why he is fighting for them to come back up, but he is...Once I figure out the reason for that, I'll let you know!:D

Okay...maybe I am wrong (it is my one time for the month to be wrong!!!), but my brother's friend's Uncle's sister told me that it didn't used to exist...

Matty,

Probation did in fact, not exist, at FedEx before we unionized. Once FPA came into being, probation came with our first contract, I believe. Your brother's friend's uncle's sister was correct.;) And oh, by the way, nothing is "because of ALPA". Not a probationary period at most airlines, nor this Age 60 thing, nor anything else. "Things" that are here, after ALPA came on the property, are, for the most part, things that have been negotiated or agreed to by both the union and management.

[QUOTE=matty;171531]We were all on permanent probation prior to ALPA/FPA/ALPA.

First you never answered my questions from the previous Post, but I'll answer yours.

As for miliary service. I also got my share of "Paid Vacations" away from my family in exotic places with of 2 years deployed service with Uncle Sam's misguided children, which is why I chose to stop flying fighters, but thanks for asking.

Huck this is my 3rd Airline, how bout you?

In my first two I was a Flight engineer for over 4 years and Junior FO for the 4 more. I missed 8 out of 8 Christmas and Thanksgivings and almost as many Birthdays and Anniversaries.
I've seen the Junior side for a long time. I will be junior in my current seat until I retire.

Pal tell me how long you have been here. You have one sense of entitlement don't you? Your lucky as hell to be in the right seat of a widebody making well over 6 figures if you have been here less than 5 years. Excuse me I forgot, DW and the MEC worked on that last contract. I guess they had an agenda there too. Don't take things for granted. You could be a 18 Year USAir FO (formerly a CAP) who will now be junior to a 2 year AWEST FO.

Past decisions, experiences, and sacrifices mean nothing in a discussion like this. Your past difficulties don't make you more correct no matter which side of a disagreement you are on. If I had the biggest story of sacrifice and difficulty, would I be right??? Thought so.

Let's argue about whether we "did the right thing" on the merits -- not merit badges!!

Doing the RIGHT thing is NEVER meaningless.

DW just sold us out to ALPA National and Prater for the retro language in the press release.

Pitiful and totally without dignity.

FJ