Here's a question that maybe JetJok can answer. In the current DC-10 bid pack, there are 53 flying lines and 69 S/O reserve lines ( I can't remember how many VTOs). I think we can all agree that makes that seat waaaaaaaaaaay overmanned. In fact, there is a persistent rumor of an excess bid this summer. However, if you look at the DC-10 training letter, there are currently 10 over 60 guys starting S/O training between now and November. So here's the Q. Why doesn't the company tell these guys that the 727 is the only seat available to them? Why is it more important to overman a seat so that these guys get what they want, vice manage the fleet manning efficiently? Sometimes I think that if we just had one DC-10, we'd have 75 crews to fly it.

 

If you look at the bidpack, there are 156 Captains, 134 F/Os and 148 S/Os. Since the Captains and the over 60 S/Os have more vacation, the manning doesn't look that far out of whack in relation to the total number of crews. There are 53 flying lines and 71 Captain reserve lines.

I believe there are still about 30 -10s, so the manning looks to be 5:1. Not that far out of line IMO.

Some of the under 60 S/Os still have training dates for the next few months to other fleets, so the 20 incoming will probably maintain the status quo.

 

That is because there does not have to be a open slot for a guy/gal forced to move due to the regulated age. You may soon see a situation where they are excessing 60 S/Os yet training 20 new S/Os at the same time.

 

If the hiring or growth stagnates for a while, the situation you mention will change (in my opinion).

Although there currently does not have to be a Bid for a 60 Pilot to bid back to S/O there does have to be a seat. My meaning is as the DC-10 fleet continues to shrink, MGT will not let every over 60 Pilot return to the DC-10 S/O seat because there aren't any more openings........almost all DC-10 S/Os will be over 60...........so they must go to the 727 S/O seat.

In theory if we don't hire for the foreseable future......and the AGE 60 stays the same there will be NO vacancies on the S/O seats of the DC-10 & 727.
If there are no vacancies there is no place for an over 60 Pilot to go except out to pasture.

Historically this has never happened because we have always been growing and the company has never prevented an over 60 pilot from taking a back seat so to speak. That situation could change very soon. I guess we will see on any upcoming BID, especially if there is an Excess DC-10 bid.

It could be an interesting couple of years.

 

[In theory if we don't hire for the foreseable future......and the AGE 60 stays the same there will be NO vacancies on the S/O seats of the DC-10 & 727.
If there are no vacancies there is no place for an over 60 Pilot to go except out to pasture.]

Seniority being sacred, wouldn't the turning 60 guy, bump a junior over 60 guy out to pasture, assuming there was somone junior in the seat? Or..bump him off the 10 to the 727 ?

 

I believe the current thinking by mgt is to have the regular bid and see how many DC-10 crewmembers bid off to other aircraft. Then you'll see an excess bid for the remaining front seats and of course the back seat. The latest plan was to bring each seat down to +/- 100 crews. There are about 120 folks in the back that are over 60 or can't hold a first class medical which means 20 or so folks going to the 727 or to pasture. As to why they continue to train guys into the back seat with the excess looming--as we used to say in the CG " that decision is way above my pay grade." According to the latest aircraft induction/conversion time table we'll be down to 14-15 DC-10s by the end of this calendar year. Either the excess will happen or we'll have LOTS of reserve and LOTS of sitting around. Not a bad way to spend football/Holiday season.

 

AA,

I'm glad other piped up on this one, as I've no idea as to why the company allows guys (turning 60) to train in the DC-10, except maybe it has something to do with the contract. As for myself, when I turned 60, I told the company I'd like to go to the 10, but after much consideration, decided that it would be better to be in the top 2% of the s/o's on the Jurassic Jet, than to be number 70 or so on the DC-10, with (at that time) only 75 real lines. I called the company and they were very nice in allowing me to change my request. Besides, once you've learned "2 A Off, 1 B on and Checked", and "Max Power, Essential Power", that's just about it. Why bother going to school again? Of course, when I'm flying with guys who actually live in Memphis, it comes out like this: "2 A be Off, 1 B be on and be checked."

 

[Although there currently does not have to be a Bid for a 60 Pilot to bid back to S/O there does have to be a seat. ]

Kind of makes you wonder what the definition of "seat" is? I'll bet the guys who aren't in the top 100 don't think there are any available seats. Looks like if you bid reserve and don't "first fly", you have a pretty fair chance of working 2-3 days a month. Close?

 

You Make a valid point.

Again time will tell.

 

The smart@ss in me says to ask DW. He'll know the "right thing to do"!