A NO vote from the sandman.

....now back to my beer.........

and more Joe Izuzu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDK8B...elated&search=

Is that what those were? They looked suspiciously like squirrel porn diagrams....so I hear. :D

First post, and yes, I’m a newbie and won’t deny that I’m working in the crewforce arena. I am however NOT Management. I will try to reply to all the posts numerically.1) First and foremost I am NOT management, some would even consider me to be a “hardliner”, say what you will.2) I don’t smoke crack nor have ever.3) The SVT was placed in the LOA in case crewmember did not decide to bid on the position, there is thought that the positions will be filled with the current/FUTURE crewforce by bidding and the SVT will not be used as it is a cost to the company an additional amount to displace crewmembers. It was set up as a “temporary” fix to a long term goal. The MEC was not “happy” about it, but this was a negotiation release to gain others. Again current/FUTURE crewforce.4) SIBA is GONE, this is done, it will be flown by us overseas or others.5) 2700X 12 + 10,000, plus storage > 79 X Hourly rate (This is an easy equation for the less interested)6) I may have put too many interests into the opening when I said we were overstaffed but would hire into the seats needed. We are FAT, but the pilots that would bid captain overseas would come from the 300/727 F/O positions, the need would be for foreign f/o’s and a stagnation of domestic/ training float/ age 60. Again we have a large training float due to the 757 and other a/c initiative.7) I’ve come on this board with anonymity and have used this to discuss the issue with MY fellow crewmembers. If you don’t like the fact I won’t display my name, than please disregard this post.8) MEC 11-1.9) I won’t use “trust me”, but I will say again “the alternative is bad”10) We do have an industry leading scope, but look at our industry. We have a major loophole that management is willing to exploit.11) We are VERY overstaffed, talk to anyone in the Boeing. This excess along with the age 60 pilots moving to the B727, the 10 pilots moving to the Boeing, our new negotiated open time visibility (lack of need for as many reserves) and the expectance of age 65.12) FUD, is an old age Union term we used to comfort ourselves. Poker is poker and bluffing is bluffing, when you play poker and bluff be prepared to loose to the person with the bigger bank roll. (I’m sure the anti MEC people are salivating at this)13) It is cheaper to hire foreign pilots, FACT. Ask our Canadian friends flying our A/C.14) Not a Junior/Senior issue, it will actually help more junior members than senior. Narrow F/O’s will bid captain overseas for pay increase, this will in turn process the need for new hires.15) Block me, call me “BC”, Age 60 issue is not this issue, but one does inherently effect the other and by voting no will not help the other, actually it will hurt it16) LOA or NO LOA there will be FedEx planes flying in Europe.17) I don’t live nor work in a cubical.18) With the excess there is still a need for training float and foreign domicile, however if you eliminate the need for a foreign domicile then there is a different excess.19) If you don’t have faith in our negotiated agreement, what makes you comfortable with an MEC grievance?20) 500 excess, was not the intent, age 60, the higher number of retainers, and the new a/c played into this number. Yes people jumper 150 numbers, but not the 225 that was expected.21) I think I hit most of the questions and comments(insults)

Hmmmm.............3 TRUST ME's in a lenghty unqualified "in the know", "I'm the Shizzzit", "these are the facts" first time drive by post........HMMMMM....well you about got it covered in the trust me department. 1.) The checks in the mail..... 2.) I'll pullout......and 3.) I won't -----------------(won't be vulgar)....yep, it's all there. Talk to the hand.

I hadn’t decided on which way to vote until reading Rowdy1’s post. After reading his post, I’m voting NO.

My guess is that Rowdy is a 10 S/O over 60. If they kick out all of those like him and there is no room to put them in the 727, they have to leave. If we say yes to the LOA and create movement, there will be room for him and other dependers. Just a thought.

That would explain:

I would have said the majority of 10 pilots are moving to the 11 or the bus....

The simplest question is if your message is true, then why are we the APC faithful the only ones hearing it? These are serious issues you speak of, seems that we all should hear them in print or person from our representatives. Instead only a small slice of the group that are probably deemed to be the more militant and irrational of the herd have been chosen to receive 'the tablet'. I still fail to see how anything in the LOA or CBA will force the pilots you speak bid these Captain positions. Also, if we're fat we're fat so why would 300/727 FO's moving to FDA Captain create newhires? Wouldn't the 'surplus' pilots move into those vacated positions, lessen the load on the backseat of the Boeing in anticipation of the -10 FE surplus, but still ultimately leave us fat?

Oh and I have no faith in an MEC grievance-at least as far as means to stop this LOA. What I do have faith in is that neither this MEC or Prater will allow those jobs to go overseas without a fight and by fight I mean making a last minute deal with the Co. before it comes to fruition. It could be that the company implements the LOA provisions anyway, runs a bid, and STV's away while ALPA initiates a grievance that will drag on until Sec. 6 openers where both parties 'agree' to include the grievance in the new contract. Meanwhile over at the Legend of Doom the FDA's are humming away as both parties planned/wished. That's a pretty good way to get around membership ratification of all LOA's. A temporary restraining order and meeting in front of a judge is another, as much like bankruptcy our policy manual isn't set up for such a scenario. Any adjudicated settlement out of that would likely be outside MR as well. Or the 'unthinkable' could happen. DW could just agree to fall on his sword, sign the deal and accept the subsequent recall. It would be brilliant actually as there is no way the process would take place fast enough to stop a bid or whatever court action would be necessary to rescind his agreeing to the deal. By agreeing to take the fall, he would be going down to his peers not the wolves that have been coming for him lately. The rest of the MEC would likely be spared, clearing the way for them to bring him back at a later time. I'm no lawyer or ALPA politico, so if I can think of ways around this deal I'm sure they've thought of these and more. It's just easier for all involved if we just take our pill voluntarily.

Focker....................out

Trust me??
 

Trust me? You mean like the mechanics and thousands of other non-union FX employees did when their retirements just got gutted by a unilateral "improvement" via the DB/DC scheme? Without a contract we'd be screwed exactly the same way.

Are we supposed to "trust" enough to sign a blank tax return for a foreign country at a completely unknown tax liability? What does trust get you when you end up paying 40, 50, 60% of your income in taxes...who knows?...and then have to get by in one of the most expensive cities in the world on the rest? Is trust a factor when you're stuck for 3 yrs home schooling your kids over a rice bowl in a studio?

Do we trust SVT? That in itself opens an enormous door to something very bad. It's a non-starter by itself.

You obviously haven't filed an expense report lately--or had your paycheck deducted--if you think trust carries any weight when dollar signs are involved.

Can you say "whipser campaign?"
 

Here are my FedEx LOA Final thoughts!

We as pilots are collectively wh0res and the company is asking us to work without a condom (no details/STV) on this LOA. It isn't going to happen. And now, the company via Rowdy1(union official/management) is implying that we need to turn this trick or take a beating(foreign pilots/undefined threats). I think that sums it up.

I choose neither!

Show yourself Rowdy1 via FCIF or Message Line it does not matter.

I Vote NO!

So if a person off the street is hired as a 757 Capt on first year pay, his pay rate is what? $40 $50 bucks an hour. Talk about making it to the show.......:eek:

Different thought, If the company wants to play hard ball then I can play too, say 10,000 extra gas every flight. Safety first.........................

I thought we collectively decided "2700" extra everyflight?

Do you really think FedEx wants to hire foreign pilots?

If they wanted to hire foreign pilots they would have. FedEx is all about control. Heck, management feels they don't have enough control over the LAX domicile. If they could have it there way everyone would be based in Memphis. Now lets have Chinese pilots flying FedEx planes in Japan, Taipai, Phillipines, etc. For those who have flown in the pacific with Fedex imagine some of the headaches associated with that. What about the labor laws in France? Seems like labor strikes in France are as common as car chases in Los Angeles, they happen every week. FedEx is able to charge a premium for their services for one reason. Reliability. They lose that, they may as well charge 40 cents. Maybe, I am naive. But there is a difference in cost cutting measures and losing control. I think FedEx is more about control than anything else.

I am just sick and tired of being told vote yes, you have no choice this is the best we can get.

I would also guess very little movement into the Boeing, except for from the over-60 S/Os choosing either not to retire or to go on temporary LOA. That will be better known in about 15 days.

Well Rowdy you need to get more info, you talk about the FDX flying in Canada by MorningStar as a threat to the future. The truth is the reason MorningStar flies our freight is we are not allowed as a US Airline to fly intra Canada. That is why we fly to Canada from the US and they fly b/t Canadian cities exclusively. You will also see that this is already being done in China with 737's and Chinese pilots with the FDX logo. Also Rowdy you wouldn't be the one the other night in IND w/ the purple MEC lanyard preaching "YES to LOA or the World will catch fire". I am more ticked that my Union has not even thought about having a roadshow/meeting to give us time to ask questions about it, but they are Johnny come lately about a town hall meeting next month on Age 60. Oh well it is a "World will catch Fire Vote for Me", SVT SUCKS.

Come on, when we call this guy out, at least get your facts straight!!
1st year NB captain at DOS+1 pay scale is $161.85/hr. If you think someone off the street won't jump on that, you're smoking crack.

I am voting no, but I hate when someone who should know better pulls info out of thin air. It makes you look like the dumb one.

When the FAA finally issues it's final rule on the age 60 issue and the rule states you must be in a window seat at date of signing to fly to 65, then we will be short crewmembers. I wonder if most of the over 60 will bail in the same month?

Where is FedEx going to find all these foreign pilots when foreign company's are having a hard time finding crewmembers and hiring the U.S. over 60 guys??? Remember they would probably be working for a contractor not FedEx.

I vote no because of SVT!!!!!!!

I don't know why the company didn't just put out the bid at the same time as the LOA. Close the bid before the vote and we would have been presented with a list of people going regardless of the outcome of the vote. Then, a yes vote and they go with the LOA, a no vote and they go with nothing. Of course, this tactic would require that they tell us what a/c are going where. Also, although there are some here who say that folks will bid this whether there is an LOA or not, there are certainly more that will with this LOA, however egregious.

Hey Rowdy,
If we are overmanned by 500, why the 4 new hires just announced? Even if they are internals why would they be brought to the line if we have too many pilots already?

Ready to go...not
 

I was all ready to live the life (a life) in Paris, my wife was ready and the kids. I was pumped and while reading the LOA the SVT section flew completely under my radar.

What made me initially a NO was the lack of thought put into educating our kids overseas. We have done a good bit of research and private schools are going to be expensive over there. At one school year 1 for 3 kids would be $110,000. Year 2 would drop to a measly $70,000.

A union official told me the public school system is fine, or I could home school. First, anyone to even suggest the public school system in a country where English is not the primary language is moronic. Second, to suggest home schooling is plain laughable (not that there is anything wrong with it...no no, not at all). I find it ridiculous that a company would expect employees to happily go to another country (non-English speaking especially) and completely disregard the important issue of educating our children. Finally, I've heard, a few times, the justification that, "private school in Germantown costs $12,000 per year." It is my guess that most of us that have kids in private school probably also have a spouse that works...just a guess, but I don't see much possibility of spouses working at CDG or HKG.


Now, having gone back and re-read the SVT portion, it is not just NO, but NO-diddly-doo.

If you think I spend my time worrying about what a new hire Capt will make then you my friend are the one smoking crack. Me I've still got the back nine to play. FOUR..........................

But I agree my vote will be NO.

2700X 12 + 10,000, plus storage > 79 X Hourly rate + Realtor fees +$2500 in points + 16,000LB HHG move + 7 R days pay.

This equation is a little more balanced.

Section 6.C. Relocation Expenses - Relocation Package #1

Hey Rowdy,

The company just hired four new pilots...kinda blows to he$$ your "we're 500 pilots overmanned argument" doesn't it?

Prez

just food for thought
 

...................................

Anyone remember when we were voting ALPA back in? One of the big selling points was the army of accountants and computers available to put true monetary value on every change as an aid in negotiations. Where the he!! is that army?

Doh, you beat me to it! :D 3 from corp flt dept, 1 prof. inst.

I give. Based on Rowdy's doom & gloom forecast I'm selling my home and moving to either base that FedEx needs me. I will also be spending all my equity on the required 3 months of security deposit plus the $65,000 or so that it will cost to get my kids into school for the first year. After that I will convince my two daughters that living together in the same bedroom is cozy and we will all get to know each other better in our 10 X 10 living room that I will be subsidizing with my remaining mortgage money.

I will try to teach my wife that "nose position is everything" when driving on public roads and quit being a courteous driver.

When my time is up abroad I will return to the US broke and without a down payment for another home. I will then continue to rent and try to build up a down payment since I blew it all to a landlord while overseas. After 2-4 years I will hopefully be able to get back into the home market and have enough money for a starter home. That is if my wife didn't leave me half way through this debacle and taken half of my rent money with her!!

Man this sounds f*ckin great! Where do I sign? NOT A CHANCE IN HE!!

Give it to the newhires. If they are that hungry or it looks good to them............fly.......be FREE!!!!!!

He'll just say we're now 504 over manned!:rolleyes:

Sorry if I got beat to that, but I was just answering Rowdy's post based on what I had seen on the company's website.

Prez

Sorry if I got beat to that, but I was just answering Rowdy's post based on what I had seen on the company's website.

Prez

Well, you were the one who threw out the totally fictitious numbers. Perhaps you were thinking about your back nine scores when you said 40-50.

No one says you have to put a lot of thought into this LOA. It will probably affect you even less than it affects me, but if you are going to throw facts out in your post, at least make them somewhat accurate.

Rowdy1....go away......trust me....go away.

The new hires are internals.

Doesn't matter. They are new to the seniority list.

Prez

Wonder what their initial assignments will be?

In my best Rowdy1 voice '75 Capt'

CDG 757 CAPT/HKG 300 CAPT

put their name in the employee look up on the bottom right of the web page and look them up. Note the job title on some of them "CAPTAIN/HEAVY JET"! ;)

What do you mean by that? That's a corporate job title.

Did you miss this part ";)" in the context of the discussion in this thread?? :rolleyes: