FDA Things To Consider
07-30-2007, 09:07 PM
#11
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: B767/CPT
Posts: 56
No Trash Here
We are 4800 with different wants and needs. Some have another business and some just want to be left alone to do as they please. This FDA is not intended to cover all of us and why should it? There are plenty of us with absolutely no intention of bidding it no matter what the package is. The people who go, will either go with this package, or without it I have absolutely no intention of bidding an FDA, but for those who do I say, good luck, your "buds" are looking after you. I voted yes and if this thing passes, which I highly doubt, at least when the bidding opens, all who bid it will do so with the LOA, warts and all staring them straight in the face. And....if they have to hire new guys for it...I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it.
So...start trash talking...although I have to admit..telling someone that "I'll bet you park outside the lines in the Democrat lot" has got to be the greatest insult of all time.[/quote]
AA,
I don't understand the reference to "trash talking" I've never done it here or on any other forum. As for the quote, don't know who wrote it. I cut and pasted parts of your reply. I think you summed things up nicely. "I have absolutely no intention of bidding an FDA, but for those who do I say, good luck, your "buds" are looking after you." "I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it." "some just want to be left alone to do as they please." "There are plenty of us with absolutely no intention of bidding it no matter what the package is." Apathy and false altruism.
Your statement, "The people who go, will either go with this package or without it.", is dead wrong. You assume that location overides commons sense and financial realities. If this is ratified people will make a decision based on what is available. The choice of whether to get up to $2700 per month and start from scratch (500lbs), or move your goods and not get the $2700 is a bad deal. This predicament virtually eliminates any family minded individuals and is not fair. And by the way that's what a union is about "fairness", especially when you consider this is the major areas for expansion within FEDEX. And about scope. I have just re-read the LOA, and some post made by the block reps. Where is there any enhancements in scope? By the way I'm not bidding one of the FDA's this time but may in the future. Hope your line of thinking doesn't prevail.
So...start trash talking...although I have to admit..telling someone that "I'll bet you park outside the lines in the Democrat lot" has got to be the greatest insult of all time.[/quote]
AA,
I don't understand the reference to "trash talking" I've never done it here or on any other forum. As for the quote, don't know who wrote it. I cut and pasted parts of your reply. I think you summed things up nicely. "I have absolutely no intention of bidding an FDA, but for those who do I say, good luck, your "buds" are looking after you." "I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it." "some just want to be left alone to do as they please." "There are plenty of us with absolutely no intention of bidding it no matter what the package is." Apathy and false altruism.
Your statement, "The people who go, will either go with this package or without it.", is dead wrong. You assume that location overides commons sense and financial realities. If this is ratified people will make a decision based on what is available. The choice of whether to get up to $2700 per month and start from scratch (500lbs), or move your goods and not get the $2700 is a bad deal. This predicament virtually eliminates any family minded individuals and is not fair. And by the way that's what a union is about "fairness", especially when you consider this is the major areas for expansion within FEDEX. And about scope. I have just re-read the LOA, and some post made by the block reps. Where is there any enhancements in scope? By the way I'm not bidding one of the FDA's this time but may in the future. Hope your line of thinking doesn't prevail.
07-31-2007, 06:55 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Who knows...waiting for a bid
Posts: 379
So...start trash talking...although I have to admit..telling someone that "I'll bet you park outside the lines in the Democrat lot" has got to be the greatest insult of all time.[/quote]
AA,
Did that one strike a nerve, I guess the truth hurts. The possibility of getting STV'd every six months for the first two years of these FDA's strikes one with me. I don't feel the union has done us a service by letting this in the LOA. Screwing the junior folks has no place here, especially from those who won't be affected, is just wrong. Your vote is your choice, but IMHO, we deserve and should demand better.
HJB
AA,
Did that one strike a nerve, I guess the truth hurts. The possibility of getting STV'd every six months for the first two years of these FDA's strikes one with me. I don't feel the union has done us a service by letting this in the LOA. Screwing the junior folks has no place here, especially from those who won't be affected, is just wrong. Your vote is your choice, but IMHO, we deserve and should demand better.
HJB
07-31-2007, 07:06 AM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: FDX Captain
Posts: 77
There are lines at Democrat?
Originally Posted by Haywood JB
So...start trash talking...although I have to admit..telling someone that "I'll bet you park outside the lines in the Democrat lot" has got to be the greatest insult of all time.[/quote]
AA,
Did that one strike a nerve, I guess the truth hurts. The possibility of getting STV'd every six months for the first two years of these FDA's strikes one with me. I don't feel the union has done us a service by letting this in the LOA. Screwing the junior folks has no place here, especially from those who won't be affected, is just wrong. Your vote is your choice, but IMHO, we deserve and should demand better.
HJB
AA,
Did that one strike a nerve, I guess the truth hurts. The possibility of getting STV'd every six months for the first two years of these FDA's strikes one with me. I don't feel the union has done us a service by letting this in the LOA. Screwing the junior folks has no place here, especially from those who won't be affected, is just wrong. Your vote is your choice, but IMHO, we deserve and should demand better.
HJB
07-31-2007, 07:15 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by FamilyATM
This whole LOA is chaff and flares. $2700 for housing, 500 pounds to move, seed money and STV is not what the company is worried about. This is all about the RLA. Look at the personal contract that the crewmember signs between themselves, the company and the union. The entire thing is about labor laws and employee rights.
The company is being attacked on several fronts regarding their status under the RLA and many forces (courts, unions, competitors, and politicians) want them under NLB. The company does not want pilots in France working under French labor laws, they want the RLA. They probably never intended to base any crewmembers in a communist country, to many variables to deal with. Looking down the road what about a base in the next emerging economy, India. Again does the company want to deal with their work rules or keep us all under the RLA.
I believe that the company has found that keeping us under the RLA, governed by one contract wherever we work in the world is in their best interest. I also believe that working under one contract and the RLA is in our collective best interest. So, now we have found common ground between the two sides and leverage for both. I believe that the MEC needs to recongize that the crewforce is not happy with this move/ STV deal, it is incomplete and needs to be improved. The company can go on and have their MOAB and still have time to work on this package before one pilot sets foot in the Paris or Hong Kong FDA.
The true leverage is time and I believe time is on our side. We can leave without the LOA and its RLA protections for Paris because the French have some stricter/costlier work rules than the USA. But the company can not afford to let the French get a foot hold into our relationship with FedEx by changing our work rules to conform with their laws. This would set a bad precedent for other nations to follow. That's my two cents.
The company is being attacked on several fronts regarding their status under the RLA and many forces (courts, unions, competitors, and politicians) want them under NLB. The company does not want pilots in France working under French labor laws, they want the RLA. They probably never intended to base any crewmembers in a communist country, to many variables to deal with. Looking down the road what about a base in the next emerging economy, India. Again does the company want to deal with their work rules or keep us all under the RLA.
I believe that the company has found that keeping us under the RLA, governed by one contract wherever we work in the world is in their best interest. I also believe that working under one contract and the RLA is in our collective best interest. So, now we have found common ground between the two sides and leverage for both. I believe that the MEC needs to recongize that the crewforce is not happy with this move/ STV deal, it is incomplete and needs to be improved. The company can go on and have their MOAB and still have time to work on this package before one pilot sets foot in the Paris or Hong Kong FDA.
The true leverage is time and I believe time is on our side. We can leave without the LOA and its RLA protections for Paris because the French have some stricter/costlier work rules than the USA. But the company can not afford to let the French get a foot hold into our relationship with FedEx by changing our work rules to conform with their laws. This would set a bad precedent for other nations to follow. That's my two cents.
Ladies and Gentleman, this is exactly why we do have leverage!
The company wants the RLA and US work rules to apply abroad --- fine with us.
First, improve the QOL benefits in the LOA, and talk about the "improved scope" EXPLICITLY in writing in the LOA, and you'll get your RLA coverage.
07-31-2007, 08:01 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 193
$$$ and Euros
Here is my biggest fear. (And I don't see it being discussed so I'm wondering if anyone is considering it)
In October of 2000, a Euro was worth $.825.
Not quite seven years later, the Euro is worth $1.37.
To put it simply, Back in 2000, I could have purchased a 20 Euro lunch for about $17 US. Three days ago in Paris, that same lunch cost me $27.36.
That was about a 60% increase.
Now, what happens when the dollar falls another 60%? Well, that same mediocre lunch is going to cost me $43.76. And who is to say that will take another seven years? Or who can predict that it will stop there?
I don't have to worry about it for myself because I won't bid it. I do worry for those that do bid it, take their families over there and find themselves in a financial quagmire.
I really do think our pilots ought to be earning more than the french guy who cleans the airplanes but I don't see any guarantees there.
Have I overlooked something?
In October of 2000, a Euro was worth $.825.
Not quite seven years later, the Euro is worth $1.37.
To put it simply, Back in 2000, I could have purchased a 20 Euro lunch for about $17 US. Three days ago in Paris, that same lunch cost me $27.36.
That was about a 60% increase.
Now, what happens when the dollar falls another 60%? Well, that same mediocre lunch is going to cost me $43.76. And who is to say that will take another seven years? Or who can predict that it will stop there?
I don't have to worry about it for myself because I won't bid it. I do worry for those that do bid it, take their families over there and find themselves in a financial quagmire.
I really do think our pilots ought to be earning more than the french guy who cleans the airplanes but I don't see any guarantees there.
Have I overlooked something?
07-31-2007, 08:16 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Excessed WB Capt.
Posts: 1,063
Originally Posted by Piloto Noche
Here is my biggest fear. (And I don't see it being discussed so I'm wondering if anyone is considering it)
In October of 2000, a Euro was worth $.825.
Not quite seven years later, the Euro is worth $1.37.
To put it simply, Back in 2000, I could have purchased a 20 Euro lunch for about $17 US. Three days ago in Paris, that same lunch cost me $27.36.
That was about a 60% increase.
Now, what happens when the dollar falls another 60%? Well, that same mediocre lunch is going to cost me $43.76. And who is to say that will take another seven years? Or who can predict that it will stop there?
I don't have to worry about it for myself because I won't bid it. I do worry for those that do bid it, take their families over there and find themselves in a financial quagmire.
I really do think our pilots ought to be earning more than the french guy who cleans the airplanes but I don't see any guarantees there.
Have I overlooked something?
In October of 2000, a Euro was worth $.825.
Not quite seven years later, the Euro is worth $1.37.
To put it simply, Back in 2000, I could have purchased a 20 Euro lunch for about $17 US. Three days ago in Paris, that same lunch cost me $27.36.
That was about a 60% increase.
Now, what happens when the dollar falls another 60%? Well, that same mediocre lunch is going to cost me $43.76. And who is to say that will take another seven years? Or who can predict that it will stop there?
I don't have to worry about it for myself because I won't bid it. I do worry for those that do bid it, take their families over there and find themselves in a financial quagmire.
I really do think our pilots ought to be earning more than the french guy who cleans the airplanes but I don't see any guarantees there.
Have I overlooked something?
What FDX is doing with this LOA is fixing their costs why our costs are at the whim of the dollar to euro exchange rate. Regardless what happens to the euro and dollar their crew costs for the CDG domocile are relatively fixed. Crews on the otherhand are experiencing costs that are a moving target. Sounds kind of like what they did with FDX Ground couriers.
Another thing I have not heard addressed is that once you go to a FDA what are the chances of getting back to the good ole U.S.A. If all the new growth is in intl arena and with the advantages that this FDA LOA give the company it might be awhile before there is a domestic vacancy to bid back into. In my limited knowledge of the MD11 bidpack, I guess about 15% of that bidback could be flown with a FDA. If the company slowly switches 15 to 25% of our domestic crews to FDA how long will it take to get a slot back in the u.s.a.? For awhile all the new opennings will be FDA.
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