FDA Things To Consider
07-30-2007, 02:15 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: B767/CPT
Posts: 56
FDA Things To Consider
I have tried to read every piece of information that is available before commenting on this issue (ie. FCIF's, Forum Posts, LOA, Union Info, etc). One thing stands out, this is a very devisive issue. Many have used this particular post to bring many aspects of this LOA into the light. But others who have selfish interest in this matter have tried to convolute the issue by using scare tactics. what if's, and disinformation on both sides of the issue. Each member of this union has the duty to research and vote on all issues, not just the one's they think might effect them personally. False altruism does nothing but show your lack of principle. If it's not good enough for you it should not be good enough for your "buds". If this is good enough for you then vote as you see fit. But, the company has already stated that other aircraft types and crews will likely be added to these FDA's in the future. So are you truely not affected by this vote? Some facts to consider not conjecture.
This in not the military, when you move, you assume the responsiblilty to abide by the laws, regulations, customs, and financial responsibilities set forth by that country. (ie. no gas coupons, no special vehicle registrations, very few exemptions customarily associated with military service, no special health facilities, banks, insurance companies, BX's or PX's, and no assistance with getting established). Ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse. One example of how harsh a penalty could be assessed for a percieve minor infraction is this Hong Kong rule. Fines of up to $500,000 could be levied for a vehicle not registered within 30 days. This is extreme and not an average example, but you get my point.
Hidden costs. Registering a vehicle. 35% of the retail value of the vehicle as determined by Hong Kong for vehicle up to $150,000. If it is imported you must have original copies of the registration and bill of sale. You will need to have it inspected for emissions and safety. France, Vehicle may be assessed Customs duties and taxes in addition to the 19.6% VAT, seat belts and safety items must conform to French standards, additional cost may be incurred for vehicles deemed high performance or "gas guzzlers".
Health Care. A lot of assumptions are being made about a health care plan that has yet to be instituted. Failure to pay a bill, in full, at a foreign hospital may prevent your release from that facility. I have personally had this happen. The insurance company may tell you one thing and the company another but the treating facility has the final say. Try getting reimburssed for that credit card charge. Before you say, I would just walk out, remember you are not in the good old USA.
Scope. The company has already explained that future growth will be exclusively in the international market. To what extent are you willing to "protect" our flying? Send non-volunteer's on STV's. Create "special circumstance" FDA's, as of yet I have not read how the LOA could apply to anyone other than some who has special circumstance, empty nesters, some single pilots, and pilots looking for a captain seat well before their seniority would permit. Or simply approve any, "take it or leave it offer" or risk FedEx outsourcing the flying. A practical matter, a fact, how many additional foreign lawyers and law firms would be needed to implement a contract with multiple pilot groups, governed by different jurisdictions, and under varying sets of labor laws. Fact, you will not do business in any of these countries with the types of constraints imposed by the RLA.
Taxes. Whew! The $82+K foreign income exemption. Professed to the Subic based crews as a benefit, thats why, according to at least one management representative, no additional monies were initally included in section 6.
Taxes. $82+K foreign income exemption. Now being quoted as a "tax holiday". This could not be farther from the truth. This exemption is provided by the US Government for the purpose of income generated outside the United States, and may be claimed only if certain restriction are met. Period. Not to assist in paying foreign governments the taxes they require. If this was the case the US Government would be using tax equalization, because every country is different, why would it apply to the Philippines when they charge no taxes.
Personal Logistics. How do you get to work? The company says they will have a pick near the downtown areas in each FDA location. If you have a personal vehicle. Remember the cost, where will you park? Who will pay for that? If you think you can afford that at your own expense you had better do some checking. Take public transportation, an option, but don't plan on doing this in uniform, you will make yourself an instant target. Remember you will be carrying a suitcase, how will that look. Remember the FCIF's about protecting your valuables especially at CDG. How long before our patterns and procedures find their way into the wrong hands. How many now carry travelers checks. Might be something to think of.
Things to consider if you accept the "enhanced offer". For $2700 per month, you will have to sign a letter the true ramifications thereof, only to be proven by time, you will need to furnish or pay additional for a furnished appartment, you will need to make a personal decision about transportation, if you choose a POV it will be expensive. You will need to pay substantial amounts of money upfront for rent, security deposits, real estate commission or rental commissions, and utility deposits. Convenience appliances, usually running on different voltages, must be purchase and have no use back in the states, except for the multivoltage units available at some locations for an increased price. Schools, it's a show stopper for anyone looking at upgrading for financial reasons (SO's to Capt excluded), unless homeschooling is an option. Housing. Each person must decide for themselves what they require. But, families or couples desiring to maintain their current standard of living will definately want to check local housing and costs, in person, a picture is worth a thousand lies, "before" making a decision.
Tax Equalization. Untennable without. But still a boon for the company IMO, considering the monies being offered in this LOA as compared to traditional ex-pat packages. In fact, if this proposal is not substandard why has no other comparison to any other company been used as a defense of the monies being offered.
The upshot, what are you willing to accept to potentially keep flights that have yet to be established? Is this offer good enough to stand "as is" when new aircraft and routes are added to the international system, as foretold by the company? Have you truely taken the time to analyze the ramifications of you decision? Do you believe that if this LOA is ratified the company will come back on regular basis to address discrepancies and adjust for cost of living increases? How many improvements were made in section 6 during the "Subic Era"? How much attention can be dedicated to FDA's in upcomming contract talks? Apathy is not acceptable. Be informed and VOTE no matter which side of this issue you are on.
This in not the military, when you move, you assume the responsiblilty to abide by the laws, regulations, customs, and financial responsibilities set forth by that country. (ie. no gas coupons, no special vehicle registrations, very few exemptions customarily associated with military service, no special health facilities, banks, insurance companies, BX's or PX's, and no assistance with getting established). Ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse. One example of how harsh a penalty could be assessed for a percieve minor infraction is this Hong Kong rule. Fines of up to $500,000 could be levied for a vehicle not registered within 30 days. This is extreme and not an average example, but you get my point.
Hidden costs. Registering a vehicle. 35% of the retail value of the vehicle as determined by Hong Kong for vehicle up to $150,000. If it is imported you must have original copies of the registration and bill of sale. You will need to have it inspected for emissions and safety. France, Vehicle may be assessed Customs duties and taxes in addition to the 19.6% VAT, seat belts and safety items must conform to French standards, additional cost may be incurred for vehicles deemed high performance or "gas guzzlers".
Health Care. A lot of assumptions are being made about a health care plan that has yet to be instituted. Failure to pay a bill, in full, at a foreign hospital may prevent your release from that facility. I have personally had this happen. The insurance company may tell you one thing and the company another but the treating facility has the final say. Try getting reimburssed for that credit card charge. Before you say, I would just walk out, remember you are not in the good old USA.
Scope. The company has already explained that future growth will be exclusively in the international market. To what extent are you willing to "protect" our flying? Send non-volunteer's on STV's. Create "special circumstance" FDA's, as of yet I have not read how the LOA could apply to anyone other than some who has special circumstance, empty nesters, some single pilots, and pilots looking for a captain seat well before their seniority would permit. Or simply approve any, "take it or leave it offer" or risk FedEx outsourcing the flying. A practical matter, a fact, how many additional foreign lawyers and law firms would be needed to implement a contract with multiple pilot groups, governed by different jurisdictions, and under varying sets of labor laws. Fact, you will not do business in any of these countries with the types of constraints imposed by the RLA.
Taxes. Whew! The $82+K foreign income exemption. Professed to the Subic based crews as a benefit, thats why, according to at least one management representative, no additional monies were initally included in section 6.
Taxes. $82+K foreign income exemption. Now being quoted as a "tax holiday". This could not be farther from the truth. This exemption is provided by the US Government for the purpose of income generated outside the United States, and may be claimed only if certain restriction are met. Period. Not to assist in paying foreign governments the taxes they require. If this was the case the US Government would be using tax equalization, because every country is different, why would it apply to the Philippines when they charge no taxes.
Personal Logistics. How do you get to work? The company says they will have a pick near the downtown areas in each FDA location. If you have a personal vehicle. Remember the cost, where will you park? Who will pay for that? If you think you can afford that at your own expense you had better do some checking. Take public transportation, an option, but don't plan on doing this in uniform, you will make yourself an instant target. Remember you will be carrying a suitcase, how will that look. Remember the FCIF's about protecting your valuables especially at CDG. How long before our patterns and procedures find their way into the wrong hands. How many now carry travelers checks. Might be something to think of.
Things to consider if you accept the "enhanced offer". For $2700 per month, you will have to sign a letter the true ramifications thereof, only to be proven by time, you will need to furnish or pay additional for a furnished appartment, you will need to make a personal decision about transportation, if you choose a POV it will be expensive. You will need to pay substantial amounts of money upfront for rent, security deposits, real estate commission or rental commissions, and utility deposits. Convenience appliances, usually running on different voltages, must be purchase and have no use back in the states, except for the multivoltage units available at some locations for an increased price. Schools, it's a show stopper for anyone looking at upgrading for financial reasons (SO's to Capt excluded), unless homeschooling is an option. Housing. Each person must decide for themselves what they require. But, families or couples desiring to maintain their current standard of living will definately want to check local housing and costs, in person, a picture is worth a thousand lies, "before" making a decision.
Tax Equalization. Untennable without. But still a boon for the company IMO, considering the monies being offered in this LOA as compared to traditional ex-pat packages. In fact, if this proposal is not substandard why has no other comparison to any other company been used as a defense of the monies being offered.
The upshot, what are you willing to accept to potentially keep flights that have yet to be established? Is this offer good enough to stand "as is" when new aircraft and routes are added to the international system, as foretold by the company? Have you truely taken the time to analyze the ramifications of you decision? Do you believe that if this LOA is ratified the company will come back on regular basis to address discrepancies and adjust for cost of living increases? How many improvements were made in section 6 during the "Subic Era"? How much attention can be dedicated to FDA's in upcomming contract talks? Apathy is not acceptable. Be informed and VOTE no matter which side of this issue you are on.
07-30-2007, 05:32 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 519
Good post, hard to read though. Try more spacing between paragraphs.
The company lowballed us thinking that they could put a fast one by us. I'm really disappointed the union approved it for ratification and didn't do more/better homework on this.
The FDA's need to be separated; one for HKG and another one for CDG. These bases are NOT apples to apples; different airplanes, countries, laws, COLA, taxes, etc, etc. so why the same LOA???
The company could have easily been more accommadating but why should they...its just business right? We are nothing more than a cog in the system so why should we get any special treatment?
Personal choice? I personally voted NO!
The company lowballed us thinking that they could put a fast one by us. I'm really disappointed the union approved it for ratification and didn't do more/better homework on this.
The FDA's need to be separated; one for HKG and another one for CDG. These bases are NOT apples to apples; different airplanes, countries, laws, COLA, taxes, etc, etc. so why the same LOA???
The company could have easily been more accommadating but why should they...its just business right? We are nothing more than a cog in the system so why should we get any special treatment?
Personal choice? I personally voted NO!
07-30-2007, 06:50 PM
#5
Slainge Var'
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Zeppelin Tail Gunner
Posts: 1,530
[If it's not good enough for you it should not be good enough for your "buds". If this is good enough for you then vote as you see fit.]
I disagree. We are 4800 with different wants and needs. Some are single, some are married with working wives and some with non-working wives. Some have no kids, some one child and some, six. Some live paycheck to paycheck on more money than some, who save a great deal each month. Some have children with special needs and some have a spouse with a medical problem. Some have kids in pre-school and some have kids that are doctors and lawyers. Some have another business and some just want to be left alone to do as they please. This FDA is not intended to cover all of us and why should it? There are plenty of us with absolutely no intention of bidding it no matter what the package is. The people who go, will either go with this package, or without it and when you see one of your "buds" in HKG or CDG and explain to them that you voted against it because "it wasn't good enough for me", expect a very odd look. I have absolutely no intention of bidding an FDA, but for those who do I say, good luck, your "buds" are looking after you. I voted yes and if this thing passes, which I highly doubt, at least when the bidding opens, all who bid it will do so with the LOA, warts and all staring them straight in the face. And....if they have to hire new guys for it...I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it.
So...start trash talking...although I have to admit..telling someone that "I'll bet you park outside the lines in the Democrat lot" has got to be the greatest insult of all time.
I disagree. We are 4800 with different wants and needs. Some are single, some are married with working wives and some with non-working wives. Some have no kids, some one child and some, six. Some live paycheck to paycheck on more money than some, who save a great deal each month. Some have children with special needs and some have a spouse with a medical problem. Some have kids in pre-school and some have kids that are doctors and lawyers. Some have another business and some just want to be left alone to do as they please. This FDA is not intended to cover all of us and why should it? There are plenty of us with absolutely no intention of bidding it no matter what the package is. The people who go, will either go with this package, or without it and when you see one of your "buds" in HKG or CDG and explain to them that you voted against it because "it wasn't good enough for me", expect a very odd look. I have absolutely no intention of bidding an FDA, but for those who do I say, good luck, your "buds" are looking after you. I voted yes and if this thing passes, which I highly doubt, at least when the bidding opens, all who bid it will do so with the LOA, warts and all staring them straight in the face. And....if they have to hire new guys for it...I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it.
So...start trash talking...although I have to admit..telling someone that "I'll bet you park outside the lines in the Democrat lot" has got to be the greatest insult of all time.
07-30-2007, 06:57 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Who knows...waiting for a bid
Posts: 379
AA,
For some of the reasons listed in your argument...kids, wives, special needs etc, how can you force someone with those needs to get junior manned every six months? I think we as a crew force need to somewhat look out for each other while we also look at the personal benefit of these things. If the cost of opening an FDA is nuetral for the company, and they are going to make a lot of money from these, that if they have to send pilots against their will, that they should at least be afforded their days off at home, trip rig, etc?
I voted no, because, even though I am not going to bid it(my wife wants to, but can't afford three private schools), I have this strange feeling that if it passes, I will be over there STV'D more than once. My bloc rep says this STV will go senior...I wouldn't bet on it!
HJ
For some of the reasons listed in your argument...kids, wives, special needs etc, how can you force someone with those needs to get junior manned every six months? I think we as a crew force need to somewhat look out for each other while we also look at the personal benefit of these things. If the cost of opening an FDA is nuetral for the company, and they are going to make a lot of money from these, that if they have to send pilots against their will, that they should at least be afforded their days off at home, trip rig, etc?
I voted no, because, even though I am not going to bid it(my wife wants to, but can't afford three private schools), I have this strange feeling that if it passes, I will be over there STV'D more than once. My bloc rep says this STV will go senior...I wouldn't bet on it!
HJ
07-30-2007, 07:02 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 11C
Posts: 149
Originally Posted by AerisArmis
The people who go, will either go with this package, or without it and when you see one of your "buds" in HKG or CDG and explain to them that you voted against it because "it wasn't good enough for me", expect a very odd look.
07-30-2007, 07:08 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FDX A300 CPT
Posts: 967
i. Rental Allowance. Pilots shall be entitled to a rental allowance of up
to $2,700 per month to offset the cost of rental housing in the FDA
location.
who says your getting the whole $2700 anyway???
consider that!
to $2,700 per month to offset the cost of rental housing in the FDA
location.
who says your getting the whole $2700 anyway???
consider that!
07-30-2007, 08:00 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Captain
Posts: 101
This whole LOA is chaff and flares. $2700 for housing, 500 pounds to move, seed money and STV is not what the company is worried about. This is all about the RLA. Look at the personal contract that the crewmember signs between themselves, the company and the union. The entire thing is about labor laws and employee rights.
The company is being attacked on several fronts regarding their status under the RLA and many forces (courts, unions, competitors, and politicians) want them under NLB. The company does not want pilots in France working under French labor laws, they want the RLA. They probably never intended to base any crewmembers in a communist country, to many variables to deal with. Looking down the road what about a base in the next emerging economy, India. Again does the company want to deal with their work rules or keep us all under the RLA.
I believe that the company has found that keeping us under the RLA, governed by one contract wherever we work in the world is in their best interest. I also believe that working under one contract and the RLA is in our collective best interest. So, now we have found common ground between the two sides and leverage for both. I believe that the MEC needs to recongize that the crewforce is not happy with this move/ STV deal, it is incomplete and needs to be improved. The company can go on and have their MOAB and still have time to work on this package before one pilot sets foot in the Paris or Hong Kong FDA.
The true leverage is time and I believe time is on our side. We can leave without the LOA and its RLA protections for Paris because the French have some stricter/costlier work rules than the USA. But the company can not afford to let the French get a foot hold into our relationship with FedEx by changing our work rules to conform with their laws. This would set a bad precedent for other nations to follow. That's my two cents.
The company is being attacked on several fronts regarding their status under the RLA and many forces (courts, unions, competitors, and politicians) want them under NLB. The company does not want pilots in France working under French labor laws, they want the RLA. They probably never intended to base any crewmembers in a communist country, to many variables to deal with. Looking down the road what about a base in the next emerging economy, India. Again does the company want to deal with their work rules or keep us all under the RLA.
I believe that the company has found that keeping us under the RLA, governed by one contract wherever we work in the world is in their best interest. I also believe that working under one contract and the RLA is in our collective best interest. So, now we have found common ground between the two sides and leverage for both. I believe that the MEC needs to recongize that the crewforce is not happy with this move/ STV deal, it is incomplete and needs to be improved. The company can go on and have their MOAB and still have time to work on this package before one pilot sets foot in the Paris or Hong Kong FDA.
The true leverage is time and I believe time is on our side. We can leave without the LOA and its RLA protections for Paris because the French have some stricter/costlier work rules than the USA. But the company can not afford to let the French get a foot hold into our relationship with FedEx by changing our work rules to conform with their laws. This would set a bad precedent for other nations to follow. That's my two cents.
Last edited by FamilyATM; 07-31-2007 at 06:20 AM.
07-30-2007, 08:32 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 777 Capt
Posts: 403
From AerisArmis - "Some have children with special needs and some have a spouse with a medical problem. Some have kids in pre-school and some have kids that are doctors and lawyers. Some have another business and some just want to be left alone to do as they please. This FDA is not intended to cover all of us and why should it?"
and
"...when you see one of your "buds" in HKG or CDG and explain to them that you voted against it because "it wasn't good enough for me", expect a very odd look."
AA, I just wanted to say thank you for those of us with special needs children and spouses with medical problems, for helping the company force us to be separated from our families for thirty days at a time when they STV us. You're the one who should be expecting the "odd" look from those of us unfortunate enough to be STV'ed. Great job of looking out for your fellow pilots.
and
"...when you see one of your "buds" in HKG or CDG and explain to them that you voted against it because "it wasn't good enough for me", expect a very odd look."
AA, I just wanted to say thank you for those of us with special needs children and spouses with medical problems, for helping the company force us to be separated from our families for thirty days at a time when they STV us. You're the one who should be expecting the "odd" look from those of us unfortunate enough to be STV'ed. Great job of looking out for your fellow pilots.
Last edited by hyperone; 07-30-2007 at 08:35 PM. Reason: addition
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