Astar
08-30-2007, 08:40 AM
#3
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 70
I wouldn't want to be at the bottom of either seniority list, Astar or ABX, right now. Just too much uncertainty as to what DHL is going to do. Of course, a lot of that depends on from where you'd be coming.
The big issue with Astar is the fleet. Every single airplane is a 3-man cockpit and, at some point, they will have to modernize. When they do, there will be a very long period of stagnation, or even furloughs, as the now "excess" 1/3 of the seniority list is absorbed into the pilot seats. We went through this, on a much smaller scale, over the pastsix years as we went from 35 DC8s to the 2 or 3 that we have today. Even though the 767 fleet was growing, the loss of the F/E seat meant a lot of staggnation and an extended furlough for 18 guys with additional furloughees out for shorter periods.
The big issue with Astar is the fleet. Every single airplane is a 3-man cockpit and, at some point, they will have to modernize. When they do, there will be a very long period of stagnation, or even furloughs, as the now "excess" 1/3 of the seniority list is absorbed into the pilot seats. We went through this, on a much smaller scale, over the pastsix years as we went from 35 DC8s to the 2 or 3 that we have today. Even though the 767 fleet was growing, the loss of the F/E seat meant a lot of staggnation and an extended furlough for 18 guys with additional furloughees out for shorter periods.
08-30-2007, 12:43 PM
#5
Retired Doug herder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Former DC8 73 Capt DHLAirways/Astar. Retired
Posts: 424
Originally Posted by jiminmem
Thanks for the info. I was curious what the QOL is right now? What are the schedules and trips like? Any infor is appreciated. Thank you.
Flying lines are week on, week off. Mostly domestic, a little Mexico and Canada stuff. Reserve lines are 8 on, 6 off. It is a good job, but you will be a SO for a long time, unless a refleet comes along. If you have something flying wise you want to do on the side to stay current, they allow that here. Good luck!
08-30-2007, 10:25 PM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: wishing i was still sipping rum on the beach, anywhere!
Posts: 98
status of astar's contract negotiations?
heavydriver;
are you guys still stalled in negotiations?
is this with a mediator? good luck and keep the faith.
jiminmem;
this is another consideration for you, the status of a pending contract....wish you luck....
are you guys still stalled in negotiations?
is this with a mediator? good luck and keep the faith.jiminmem;
this is another consideration for you, the status of a pending contract....wish you luck....
Last edited by recce hellcat; 08-30-2007 at 10:34 PM.
08-31-2007, 06:36 AM
#8
Retired Doug herder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Former DC8 73 Capt DHLAirways/Astar. Retired
Posts: 424
I wouldn't call it stalled, more like glacial, recce. 
Jim, the 7 on/off works well for large blocks of time off with vacation. 21 days in a row is the normal time for 1 week of vacation used. But like the ABX guys are saying, tread cautiously with either us or them right now. Neither is in smooth waters right now.
Jim, the 7 on/off works well for large blocks of time off with vacation. 21 days in a row is the normal time for 1 week of vacation used. But like the ABX guys are saying, tread cautiously with either us or them right now. Neither is in smooth waters right now.
08-31-2007, 10:33 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: This side of the dirt.
Posts: 890
Jim,
Just to add my .02....
Astar is bottom line, a gamble right now. It's a good job. I don't think many folks who ever worked for a living could deny that, but that doesn't mean it'll be all you want, so here's a few pros and cons to consider.
Pros:
7/7 schedule - Our basic schedule. Even for reserve lines. Like heavy said, that makes for two, 3-4 week vacations in your first 5 years, three of em in years 6-10, and four of em from year 11 on. Not to shabby. Also, although we do have some weekend flying, some of our weekend layovers begin in the wee hours Sat. morning at the outstation and return Mon night. So, you can either hang out and "do the town" at the outstation for the weekend, or jumpseat home as long as your back for the showtime on Mon for the inbound. On a holiday weekend like this one, You could JS home, BBQ and beer with friends and fam, and won't have to be back till Tues evening at the OS. So, if your were doing a 7/7 this week, Sat. AM thru Tues PM is four of your days, then you go home....for seven days. You'd be hard pressed to find that anywhere else. That being said, as DHL grows and expands, there's probably be more weekend flying somewhere down the road.
401K - 9% company contribution, that's contribution now, years 1-5. 12% years 6-10 and 15% 11 on. Fidelity run with lot's of options. Again not bad.
Number of legs - 2 legs outbound, rest all day, 2 legs in get a couple hours shuteye, and do it again. Many flights are 1 out and 1 inbound.
Other bennies - Insurance etc. are excellent.
Pay - While we are now the lowest paid on the FedEx, UPS, ABX scale, that is due to the fact that we've been on this contract going on 8 years. Even so, the pay scale ain't bad. Look into it.
Pilots - Been here 5.5 years. Great group (with some exceptions of
course).
Freight - Doesn't b1tch, takes care of itself, and there's yet to be a congressional conference on a "package's bill of rights". That said, I always enjoyed flying pax and do miss some of that interaction. The other pros tend to make up for that though.
DHL - Owned by Deutch Post, a multi-billion dollar company. They have exceedingly deep pockets that allows them the ability to make multi-billion dollar mistakes, learn from them and move forward. They have said repeatedly they are commited to the US operation and although movement is glacial, they are moving in a positive direction IMHO.
Cons:
7/7 schedule - If you are at a regional and live in your base and have a good schedule and are away from home three to four nights and then home three to four nights a week, you've got to adjust your life to accomodate a longer block gone. Of course when your home folks in your neighborhood'll think you don't ever work. Some folks just prefer their time at home in shorter chunks. It's pure preference. I find that 7-9 days home gives me time to do a lot more instead of the fits and starts of commuting a 3/4 or 4/3 schedule.
Commuting - I think it's one of the easiest places to commute there is.
Old equipment - While they are well maintained, they're old. Steam gauges. Cables. No EFIS...(you Bus drivers can say what you want to, I don't consider 4 tiny cathode ray tubes from the 80's, EFIS) If you want new, shiny and intuitively helpful, we're just not gonna cut it. They're clean, work well, and some of us have quadruple redundancy in the powerplant department.....engine failure abnormal procedure.
Management - There was a time when things were more familial here. That's pretty much been thrown in the crapper by Mr. Dasburg and his NWA management crew, overseen by a former Eastern scab over 60 guy who is simply trying make a cash run till he retires or croakes asthe DO. Probably no worse than what you're experiencing at any regional.
S/O seat - It's not what you got into this business to do. Period. Cowboying up is a state of mind, and so is being a captain. Think like a captain in whatever seat you occupy and it'll make it more interesting, help when you upgrade, and might even save your life. Will you sit sideways for years and years or be on the hook for a furlough when we refleet to two man cockpits? That's gonna depend on one thing....expansion. That's the wild card. When? If? How? Nobody knows, but I would say that the answers are coming sooner rather than later.
Night flying - Some folks just can't do it. If you stay in shape and make the adjustments, it's fine. If you can't, you'll probably have a hard time at any of the major freight airlines and international flights at the legacy pax arilines.
Contract status - We are talking strike over here. Do I think it'll get to that, don't think so and hope not, BUT, you can bet your sweet bippy that we are unified in making it happen if we need to. That will mostly mean our demise if it comes to that. We know that. Don't like it, but by-God there come's a time when you've got to grow a pair. I don't have near as much to loose as those like HvyDriver, but trust me, when Management hear's guys like him tell them they'll shut it down and turn wrenches in a Harley shop before they let us get screwed more, it sends a message. It's high stakes poker many aren't willing to play. That's one of the reasons we make the big bucks....relatively speaking.
Unknowns - There's plenty outside of our company. Namely, ABX, Polar, the latest announcement regarding possible ties between UPS and Deutch Post. How it's all gonna shake out? Who knows.
DHL - DHL is a fickle company who has, in the past, perfected the combination of arrogance and incompentence. They have a real problem in the realm of customer service due to they're reliance on independent contractor delivery to the customer. You can't do that, while thumbing your nose at the competition and buying multimillion dollar ads that say you are the leader in customer service. They tend to believe that as long as they paint it yellow and red and declare it outstanding, it makes it so. That dog just don't hunt. AStar can give 100% reliability, but if the delivery guy stumbles out of his van like Jeff Spicoli arriving at Ridgmont High on the customer's doorstep, we'll always be sucking hind teat.
You're in a difficult position in that with all those uncertainties, it would be difficult to leave a 90K job for a 35K job wondering whether or not your gonna be on strike in the next three months. At the same time, you might come aboard and be at the beginning of the great awaking we've all been waiting and investing in for years. As for me, I read this quote in the paper the other day...."I'd rather die with the lions than live 1000 years with the lambs." Good luck.
Just to add my .02....
Astar is bottom line, a gamble right now. It's a good job. I don't think many folks who ever worked for a living could deny that, but that doesn't mean it'll be all you want, so here's a few pros and cons to consider.
Pros:
7/7 schedule - Our basic schedule. Even for reserve lines. Like heavy said, that makes for two, 3-4 week vacations in your first 5 years, three of em in years 6-10, and four of em from year 11 on. Not to shabby. Also, although we do have some weekend flying, some of our weekend layovers begin in the wee hours Sat. morning at the outstation and return Mon night. So, you can either hang out and "do the town" at the outstation for the weekend, or jumpseat home as long as your back for the showtime on Mon for the inbound. On a holiday weekend like this one, You could JS home, BBQ and beer with friends and fam, and won't have to be back till Tues evening at the OS. So, if your were doing a 7/7 this week, Sat. AM thru Tues PM is four of your days, then you go home....for seven days. You'd be hard pressed to find that anywhere else. That being said, as DHL grows and expands, there's probably be more weekend flying somewhere down the road.
401K - 9% company contribution, that's contribution now, years 1-5. 12% years 6-10 and 15% 11 on. Fidelity run with lot's of options. Again not bad.
Number of legs - 2 legs outbound, rest all day, 2 legs in get a couple hours shuteye, and do it again. Many flights are 1 out and 1 inbound.
Other bennies - Insurance etc. are excellent.
Pay - While we are now the lowest paid on the FedEx, UPS, ABX scale, that is due to the fact that we've been on this contract going on 8 years. Even so, the pay scale ain't bad. Look into it.
Pilots - Been here 5.5 years. Great group (with some exceptions of
course).
Freight - Doesn't b1tch, takes care of itself, and there's yet to be a congressional conference on a "package's bill of rights". That said, I always enjoyed flying pax and do miss some of that interaction. The other pros tend to make up for that though.
DHL - Owned by Deutch Post, a multi-billion dollar company. They have exceedingly deep pockets that allows them the ability to make multi-billion dollar mistakes, learn from them and move forward. They have said repeatedly they are commited to the US operation and although movement is glacial, they are moving in a positive direction IMHO.
Cons:
7/7 schedule - If you are at a regional and live in your base and have a good schedule and are away from home three to four nights and then home three to four nights a week, you've got to adjust your life to accomodate a longer block gone. Of course when your home folks in your neighborhood'll think you don't ever work. Some folks just prefer their time at home in shorter chunks. It's pure preference. I find that 7-9 days home gives me time to do a lot more instead of the fits and starts of commuting a 3/4 or 4/3 schedule.
Commuting - I think it's one of the easiest places to commute there is.
Old equipment - While they are well maintained, they're old. Steam gauges. Cables. No EFIS...(you Bus drivers can say what you want to, I don't consider 4 tiny cathode ray tubes from the 80's, EFIS) If you want new, shiny and intuitively helpful, we're just not gonna cut it. They're clean, work well, and some of us have quadruple redundancy in the powerplant department.....engine failure abnormal procedure.
Management - There was a time when things were more familial here. That's pretty much been thrown in the crapper by Mr. Dasburg and his NWA management crew, overseen by a former Eastern scab over 60 guy who is simply trying make a cash run till he retires or croakes asthe DO. Probably no worse than what you're experiencing at any regional.
S/O seat - It's not what you got into this business to do. Period. Cowboying up is a state of mind, and so is being a captain. Think like a captain in whatever seat you occupy and it'll make it more interesting, help when you upgrade, and might even save your life. Will you sit sideways for years and years or be on the hook for a furlough when we refleet to two man cockpits? That's gonna depend on one thing....expansion. That's the wild card. When? If? How? Nobody knows, but I would say that the answers are coming sooner rather than later.
Night flying - Some folks just can't do it. If you stay in shape and make the adjustments, it's fine. If you can't, you'll probably have a hard time at any of the major freight airlines and international flights at the legacy pax arilines.
Contract status - We are talking strike over here. Do I think it'll get to that, don't think so and hope not, BUT, you can bet your sweet bippy that we are unified in making it happen if we need to. That will mostly mean our demise if it comes to that. We know that. Don't like it, but by-God there come's a time when you've got to grow a pair. I don't have near as much to loose as those like HvyDriver, but trust me, when Management hear's guys like him tell them they'll shut it down and turn wrenches in a Harley shop before they let us get screwed more, it sends a message. It's high stakes poker many aren't willing to play. That's one of the reasons we make the big bucks....relatively speaking.
Unknowns - There's plenty outside of our company. Namely, ABX, Polar, the latest announcement regarding possible ties between UPS and Deutch Post. How it's all gonna shake out? Who knows.
DHL - DHL is a fickle company who has, in the past, perfected the combination of arrogance and incompentence. They have a real problem in the realm of customer service due to they're reliance on independent contractor delivery to the customer. You can't do that, while thumbing your nose at the competition and buying multimillion dollar ads that say you are the leader in customer service. They tend to believe that as long as they paint it yellow and red and declare it outstanding, it makes it so. That dog just don't hunt. AStar can give 100% reliability, but if the delivery guy stumbles out of his van like Jeff Spicoli arriving at Ridgmont High on the customer's doorstep, we'll always be sucking hind teat.
You're in a difficult position in that with all those uncertainties, it would be difficult to leave a 90K job for a 35K job wondering whether or not your gonna be on strike in the next three months. At the same time, you might come aboard and be at the beginning of the great awaking we've all been waiting and investing in for years. As for me, I read this quote in the paper the other day...."I'd rather die with the lions than live 1000 years with the lambs." Good luck.
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