No, I would not be begging.

I hate to break it to you, but $30K in the states is better than our $54/hr plus $2700 a month in Paris. Pax guys can do tons of open time and get near 100 hrs a month if they need to plus up their income. Can't do that at FedEx. Often its just BLG plus fewer than 12 hrs. Period.

Call it what you will, but the LOA is concessionary for the FO positions. FO's upgrading to CA to go fill the FDA's will see a next increase in standard of living. And it will be terrible for newhires, if they have to go.

Doesn't have a right to complain about what's going on at FedEx? I disagree. You were on the outside once too, remember. Those looking in are watching their dream job (the first 3 years of it, anyway) turn into something they never dreamed it could.

At least we agree on something. If newhires have to fill CDG, they will have trouble filling the slots as many will go elsewhere.


BTW, its narrow body rate in CDG. Not widebody.

No it wasn't. It was "rushed" because the MEC didn't want to get beat up about it for longer than necessary. The more time it hung out there the more their inadequate research was coming to light.


IMHO, the longer it took the "those who don't read without pictures" crowd became more aware of the actual provisions. A No vote became more likely with each passing week.

DLAX--You are kidding yourself if you think folks won't bid CA in CDG. When you consider FO to CA upgrade, they will not lose standard of living to go. Then there are the empty nest CA's who just want to have some fun in Paris....


Bluejuice is right. Folks not here, and some here, don't know how this place works. If something is a big benefit to the CA's the MEC will find a way to get it voted in. Not saying if that is bad or good in this post, just is.

That is why the LOA was offered to us and why it passed. It offered the CA's and FO's nearing CA what they wanted. Plain and simple.

Don't bid it if you don't want it--If no newhires go to FDA's the LOA can be considered a success. No one will have involuntarily been given the shaft on pay.

If the FDA's go senior like the union says--All the junior SO's and FO's will move up the seniority list as more senior bubbas go to CDG.

So, until we see who gets on the training letter for the FDAs, all this crying about how we screwed the junior guys is just speculation.

I'm a fairly senior F/O (under 20%) on the MD and from every which way I can calculate it for myself, bidding Captain and moving to either FDA is a huge drop in take-home pay and lifestyle. There are many tax implications and overall effect to net-worth. Many are not thinking this process all the way through to the bottom line.

I'm sorry to hear that. No sarcasm. I was hoping it would be pretty close to go from from wide FO MEM to narrow CA in CDG.

I don't know how the widebody FO's and Narrowbody FO's who voted for the LOA got brainwashed to do so.

We have about 50-60% on the property (newhires couldn't vote and there were those who didn't vote but should have) to thank for this POS LOA and this probably includes many senior wide FO's and narrow FO's.

I'm betting few will admit their yes vote a year from now.

Guys Let's cut the LOA Crap...............and move on.

THE LOA was below most peoples expectations (mine included although I voted for it) ......No question

But this continuing whining is pointless.
Wait until everything plays out. Whining at this point is useless as is whining about the realities of our new contract.

The LOA still offers th same benefits that were previously offered with the addition of Tax Equalization. I've seen and heard alot of hoo-Lah over this on this forum, mostly opinions but little facts.

The "Brainwashed" FO's (as you put it) will at least get $2700 more than they would have had we not ratifed it.

Lets sum up the only real facts we all Know.

1. The company had the ability to open both these FDAs up with No say from the membership. They offered more......albeit little more.

2. Everypilot who Bids the FDA has the option to take the Section 6 FDA move package which is the same as the old one, with the addition of Tax Equalization.

3. Every pilot who Bids the FDA has the option of Getting $10,000 seed money and $4,000 a year in storage fee reimbursments and $2700 a month if they rent or $1300 a month if they buy, and yes Tax equalization, should they opt for the Enhanced option.

4. The STV is a concession, No argument.

Everything else about this is opinions and everyone has one. Yes we all wish it was more.


Everyone loves to ***** and throw stones at the NC and MEC.

All you Hard nose folks fail to address the real issue.

Show me a pilot group that has enough stones to stop voluntarily flying disputed pairings. Show me a pilot group that decided to spend as much Free time as possible with their families during contract negotiations.
Show me a membership that calls in Fatigued when they are, instead of continuing on (when after the fact they always admit they shouldn't have). Show me a membership that will no longer tolerate this "I'm in it for me Attitude" from their Squadron Buddies or co-workers. Until then all this bitchin is purely Lip service.

As for the Passed LOA: (My last post on the what is done) if you hard liners really think we have a membership that would have supported an MEC stance, "Don't Bid it until we get the following issues addressed" I think you are ignoring past history or you are living in your own dream world.

Face facts, we got what we got because of the above, not because of the NC or the MEC.
If you want to be Mad, BE MAD, but focus your anger on where it belongs............on US. That is ALL of US. Then do something about it.

Unless you play the LCA game and fly extra when you are bumped or have been flying extra, either by protecting Carry over (at straight time) puting yourself on the VLT/DFT list or doing No credit Make Up every month you would make more as a WB capt and a lot more $$ as a Capt in either CDG or Hkg.

CAPT & FO Pay rates DOS + 2 (I'l use 11 year Longevity since this is about the WB Capt point in MEM) Intl overide included

WB CAPT NB CAPT WB FO

$238.00/hr $208/hr $168/hr

WB CAP in HKG pays $70/hr > than MEM WB FO $70 x 900 hrs/year = $63,000 year more + Addtional $32,400 annual housing
NB CAP in CDG pays $40/hr > than MEM WB FO $40 X 900 hrs/year + $ 36,000/yr more + additional 32,400 housing

Average in $5,000 additional year ($10,000 seed money divided by 2)

So lets see conservatively $100,000 more annually as a WB HKG CAP or $71,000 more as a NB CDG CAP.

Yeap nobody is gonna bid this.......................Right

As for quality of Life, that is in the eye of the beholder.
If you had the expectation to live in a 3000 sq ft house with your boat and RV in either CDG or HKG you were dreamin from the start, no matter how much the company ponied up.

But it is your call to Stay a Senior WB FO. Everyone might not have the same life style of expectations as you.

Redeye,

Thanks for taking the time to post. No sarcasm here.

I value and enjoy hearing the other side of the argument.

If current FO's or SO's voluntarily fill the CDG FO slots I will view the LOA as a successful accomplishment. I know it is a matter of opinion if we could have got a better one either way.

Cheers.

Ok, guys, redeye says its time to shut up and color.

Sounds a lot like the MEC.

Thanks for setting us all straight Dad.

Difficult Homework Problem...
 

My daughter had this math problem for homework this afternoon, can anyone help her solve it?

You make $10 babysitting and use it to buy lollipops at $1 each. Then your parents move overseas where you make $13.33 babysitting, but lollipops cost $1.40 each.

Assuming you really enjoy lollipops, are you better off before or after the move?

I'm thinking about hiring a tax consultant to help her solve it;)