Dadof6

hopefully, we can leave religion out of the discussion, and comment on the thread

PicklePausePull

Why don't some of you try posting intelligent responses to Bob's thoughts, rather than launch ad hominum attacks against him?

One of the issues I see is that our own leadership [sic] actively encouraged us to vote for these substandard contracts. They negotiated poorly, then used road shows, emails, and calls to actively promote. I think, therefore, they are more culpable then had they simply put the contracts out there for the membership to dissect and debate. I believe that's why these substandard contracts passed by such large majorities. The membership trusted their leaders [sic], and the leaders failed their constituency. With agency shop, what pressure is there for true reform?

FLMD11CAPT

PS. ....md11freightdog..........bullseye......B-57 on the mark.....bucket of sunshine away.....

dckozak

What does removing agency shop have to do with good leadership?? Lack of agency shop just allows freeloaders like Bob to sit on the sidelines and receive the benefits of union representation without having to pay for it. Most non members are quiet about there status, wishing to hide rather than announce their cheapness to their fellow pilots. Bob has a axe to grind with ALPA, and I think all unions, or is is just dumb pilots who should know better than to try to organize and negotiate for pay and QOL with (sic) their employer.
Bob is just a more articulate and (when he wants to be) verbose critic of ALPA. Most try to make their audience believe that ALPA is a hired contractor, made up of liberal ACLU lawyers just looking to feed their bellies at the expense of dumb airline pilots. If I understand Bob's last diatribe correctly, he thinks were all to stupid to understand how to deal with (our) employer. I did get the part about agency shop being bad, but as a grandfathered non member, I can only suppose that Bob figures with (paying for) membership optional, he would have more non union friends to commiserate with in the future.

machz990

We were sold down the river with a sub-standard LOA, the sodomizer has been cranked into overdrive and now we hear that capture over 8 won't be built into trip guarantee.

Bob is a non-member but at least if you are going to reply make it an intelligent debate such as the two replies above. We are all familiar with the adage that if you have no valid argument against the message you attack the credibility of the messenger. I would love to see more constructive debate on the issues that Bob brings up.

FLMD11CAPT

PSS
Insert just after response to Mayday above:

Mach Z, you might be in the same category as BL and PPP........ANY attempt to discredit or undermine the process is a fools game (read idiot), the only protection we have is the collective barganing process. If you feel ours is flawed then occupy a meaningful position within the organization and fix what needs to be fixed. Legitimizing a non-members position by tacitly agreeing is to align to them.......(attack what?) Thinking through is always better than just thinking........

mrzog2138

The key to an union is ACTIVE MEMBERSHIP. If the members do not take an active role and just blindly follow, then the results will be indicitive. The system works, but the members must take an active role. The attitude of "I pay my 2%, yada yada yada" is not enough. And as far as Bob goes to be active you must be a MEMBER. The childish mentality "I don't agree with you, I am taking my ball home" does no good. It is easy pointing fingers at what is wrong.

Laughing_Jakal

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah ....oh snap! What were we talkin' about?

Dog Breath

FLMD11CAPT,

Check your PMs. One of the quickest ways to get your post deleted is to insult another user. This is a professional forum. Debating all sides of an issue is encouraged as long as the dialog is constructive and civil. Insulting another member is not acceptable here.

av8rmike

You opinion that working within the Union structure is the best way to effect change is correct - in theory. In practice, however, if you do not parrot the 'Party Position', you are disinvited from the table. I speak from experience as a three year volunteer and past interim chairman of a committee who didn't see it the the way the 'leadership' did on the POS LOA. I was vocal in my opposition here and was told very clearly that my volunteer service would no longer be welcome if I didn't drink a big glass of shut the f up...

Now that I'm no longer on that committee, I feel free to call a spade a spade. I don't think any of you "it's the best we could get" crowd are willing to support that position now. I've even heard some mea culpas from the "quit whining, you flexes have it too good anyway" crowd from the last contract. Hopefully, at least SOME people will begin to understand that we're ALL in this together and consider this fact when we discuss contractual issues...