nightfreight

Micro,

I agree with you 100%. Over the past year, I have totally lost trust in our union and feel that they aren't listening to the vast majority of the members. I am not sure how this situation has gotten so out of control, but I believe that after the super high passing of the contract that these guys thought they were bullet proof.

The only way this ship will be righted is with new folks in the union. We are off to a nice start with Albie, Tony, and Vic, but I can't think of any of the other block reps that I would like to stay. It's not that I don't appreciate their work, but maybe it's time to wipe the slate clean and start over.

I am tired of hearing about ALPA national taskings,how great they think we are, blah blah blah. I am tired of hearing about "doing the right thing", while selling out 95% of us. I am tired of hearing about this great relationship we have with the company, while our lines deteriorate and we negotiate a new B Scale at Fedex (FDA). It seems that contract enforcement works for the company, instead of the opposite.

This is an easy fix. We need new folks running the show. This is the only way that things can be righted. I have no trust that my interests are even being remotely considered....

PicklePausePull

I have to disagree with you here, Albie15. When one is faced with negotiating against professional negotiators, especially attorneys, one needs to have attorneys negotiating for you. They are you third party warriors, just as the company has their own. Ever tried to argue you own case in court opposite an attorney? Pilots are just not trained, nor do they have the requisite time, to effectively negoitate. I think this has been one of our collective greatest mistakes all along.

USMCFDX

I would much rather my dues money pay for a professional negotiator than a non-fact finding boon-doggle to HKG and Paris.

Micro

I've argued for a professional negotiator for years and all I get back from the MEC/officers is that "well ALPA has lawyers (who've been doing this for years) working IN THE BACKGROUND for us and we really need a pilot sitting at the table". Also "no negotiator really knows our business so that's why we need a pilot at the table". YGTBSM!!!!! I say hire a PROFESSIONAL NEGOTIATOR. I don't care if he is a lawyer. I just went through problems closing on a house and I'm not a real estate agent/lawyer. (I'm a PILOT. That's MY profession. That's where my skill is.) As soon as I HIRED the real estate lawyer, everything got straightened out and the deal was done. Stop trying to blow smoke up my a$$ telling me how great ALPA is. The MEC needs to do it's due diligence and seriously look into this option and then COMMUNICATE the findings (both sides of the argument) to the crew-force and then abide by OUR decision!!!

fdxmd11fo

Many of the younger guys, myself included feel we were sold out the same way most pilots feel we were sold out with the parking lot deal by FPA.

If you want us to unify we need to get rid of our current leadership. Everyone of them

Jetjok

I'm not disagreeing with you, but your example of using a real estate lawyer to straighten out a real estate issue is quite a bit different than hiring a "professional negotiator (PN)", to negotiate on our behalf, a pilot contract. There are too many differences between the two to try and justify one by the other. I'm not saying that we shouldn't use this type of service, but I wonder if there really are any "professional negotiators" who would have the ability to help craft a airline contract. Our business is very complex, and as such, I would think that you need someone whose been there and done that. After all, there are perhaps 20 airlines in the U.S., and for the vast majority of these, they negotiate a contract every 3 or 4 years, so it's not like many contracts are being negotiated all the time, and because of that, I'd think that there are not many airline knowledgeable PN's, if for no other reason than there's really not that much business to do.

I do agree, that if we could find a PN, with the right credentials, whose negotiated other airline contracts (it would be even better, if the pilots at those airlines are happy with their contracts) that we should consider hiring them to be PART OF OUR NEGOTIATING TEAM, because no one single person can possibly be knowledgeable enough to negotiate a complex contract like an airline contract. These are very complex issues, with subtlety and innuendo being always in the background.

Micro

JJ
I was not comparing a RE lawyer to a professional negotiator except that we should hire someone who is a professional in his/her business field.
But I don't agree that we have to find someone who has already negotiated a "pilot contract". He has to be a professional NEGOTIATOR. He sets the strategies, manages and leads our team, ensures the data is in place and sits across the table from the company seeing who blinks first. To be truthful, I think ALPA and our NC left a lot to be desired and didn't serve us well at all last time. Although 95% voted for the contract, more and more crew-members are now realizing how poor this contract is really turning out to be and are now b!tching about it. Sad that many didn't really read the CBA before voting on it but that doesn't change the fact that I think we could have done much better.
And I think the LOA is a perfect example of the MEC/officers/NC not doing their jobs!!

fedupbusdriver

We need to hire a negotiator who has negotiated AGAINST another airline pilot group. They have all been successful. They know what the company wants out of a contract, and would do a fine job negotiating against our company.

Micro

Novel idea!! I bet there's a BUNCH of them out there and I'd also bet they're pretty good at what they've done.

Busboy

Once again, the FedEx pilot mentality strikes. "What we need is someone else to do it for me, with my dues money."

Guys, we don't need to hire an outside "professional negotiator". It wouldn't do any good. We could hire the company's negotiator, and it still wouldn't do any good. Why? Because our management does not respect us as a labor group. Nor, do they fear the consequence of entering self-help. We have given them absolutely no reason to.

What we need, is to have 4800 pilots, standing strong behind our negotiating committee. And, not just with words and stickers. Talk is cheap, especially in contract negotiations. What we need, is to have every pilot available, thousands, show up at MEM roadshows. What we need, is to have hundreds of pilots show up at informational picketing events. We need to stop voluntarily cancelling vacations, stop flying draft and volunteer, stop doing extra makeup, stop flying carryover and your entire next month's flying, during negotiations. All the stickers in the world mean nothing, if management doesn't believe it and see effect.

We could have Henry Kissinger sitting at our side of the table...And, it's not going to make a difference. Look in the mirror. That's the guy that's going to make a difference. That's the guy that'll decide what kind of a contract we get.

The Delta and United pilot's used the same toolbox(ALPA) to get those fantastic contracts, pre-9/11. They didn't need outside "professional negotiators". Neither do we.