UPSFO4LIFE

This is not my first airline so I can say many other airline have it much worse than we do. Scheduling reminds me of the IRS. I would rather not ever hear from them.

SaltyDog

LJS,
Your view is accurate. The scheduler is much like us, sandwiched between the job and supervisors who only want revenue moved regardless of any contract or safety concern. Was same at my last airline, and yes, sometimes worse (no union for awhile)

UPSDISPATCHER

You pretty much nailed it here. But let's not stop with the supervisors, we must include their managers as well. One of our sups was promoted to a manager position in crew scheduling. Knowing that he couldn't comprehend our 74 page contract gives me the confidence to say that he isn't exactly taking a magnifying glass to your phonebook-thick contract either. He will read in once, make up a wrong but convenient interpretation, and stick to it until labor makes him stop. If any loopholes are found and abuse it would come down from labor. The M badges in that department just don't have the brainpower to do it. Room temperature IQs.......

Luckydawg

Hey Salty,

I can see both sides of this especially in some new or grey areas. I was a scheduler once and believe me they have it tough sometimes. I've seen it all in a year's worth of the "other" side (not here). Sometimes you might be smiling only because you've just filled the trip and can move on to the next headache. Sometimes you have no clue if it's legal or not. Granted as a scheduler my contract knowledge exceeded most but when push comes to shove and I didn't know what the answer was, you bet I would lean.

It just comes down to knowing your contract better than who your dealing with. A little bluff ability helps every now and again. Problem is, schedulers are usually doing the bluffing.

Slice

I pre-dated JO by a few months. Never slept on a plane or did a standup there but saw a lot of the other games played. There are many bad flying jobs out there but it got me where I am today, so my complaints are few and fleeting. I've moved on!

L'il J.Seinfeld

The other observation I've had that I forgot to mention concerns the intelligence level of managers at UPS. Again, for the most part, the ACPs and pilot managers are quality people who are bright and articulate. There may be some mgt pilot jerks, but at least they are somewhat intelligent. I'd say most are former military and have masters degrees.

The non-pilot managers in scheduling, maintainance, and other areas of the airline are amazing. The amazing thing is how incredibly unqualified and unintelligent they are collectively. I have an MBA and have done numerous case studies on companies in various industries. Most managers at GE, IBM or any other comparable Fortune 500 company could move to another company, even FedEx, and learn the company and do a good job with minimal training. Leadership, management skills, and problem solving abilities are universal and work anywhere. UPS has the corporate culture and belief that unless you spent a few years loading boxes onto a truck, you could not possibly be qualified to be a manager here. Consequently they do not hire outside talent directly into management positions--even middle mgt. The result is that we have truck drivers and neandrathal former box loaders making 6 figure salaries in high level mgt positions who lack the most basic skills of leadership and management. These are the folks we hear about when they change jobs and their bios always end with "is pursuing a bachelors degree from Univ of Phoenix." When these folks encounter a pilot who is better educated and makes more money than they do, they often have a huge chip on their shoulder. These folks argued against pilots getting to wear ties when the airline began because only management wears a tie. These are also the folks within UPS that have caused 1st year pilot pay to be so low. They can not stand the reality of a pilot who has only been with the company just 1 year making well over 100K.

By no means is the Air Force the model for effective organizational structure. But they are set up and run in a similar fashion as UPS. The major difference is that UPS has the equivalent of TSgts (E-6) in high level leadership positions compared to the USAF having a 20 year O-6 who spent a career progessing through jobs with increased responsibilities. The UPS manager may have had 20 years with the company, but most of it was spent loading boxes or supervising an 18 year old part time worker loading boxes.

I'm not against promoting from within. I am not against the blue collar work ethic and using the experience of physical labor when placed in management positions. The problem is that we have paranoid managers who think they need to watch over and treat pilots the same way they treated the box loaders they used to supervise. The biggest area for improvement at UPS is in changing the culture of leadership/management through intimidation and fear. But again, for the most part, pilots don't usually encounter many problems with ACPs. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be as an ACP dealing with other managers at UPS. I wonder what percentage of mgt pilots that left the line regret their decisions.

Precontact

Makes you wonder how much money we could really make if we had it all together...

SaltyDog

Much more, but truly, truly I say to you that ATL does not care. They make enough and enjoy being in control. That is exactly how the fiefdoms work by design. Control is omnipotent, not how to make more. Schedulers respond to the pressure to get a warm body in a seat. The airline responds to jerky budgets that would make Uncle Sam feel at home. <g>. Price of rising fuel out of the budget? Airline better cut somewhere else in the budget to pay for it. I am sure most supervisors and managers are asked little how to improve anything they do. Many are more like us just doing a job to make our customers happy and keeping that paycheck. Sad really, because they could make millions more, but the corporate arrogance of just millions compared to the 4 billion isn't worth the cultures loss of "control". I am at peace with it now <g>

MD11

Please!
I am not a scheduler, but I work next to them,,, they get much pressure from management.. they are doing the best job possible under their circumstances. In fact they are on the edge of going union... Give them your support!

Freightpuppy

Good for ya!