2nd Year Widebody W-2 at Fed Ex?
02-08-2006, 11:13 PM
#11
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Sorry to highjack the thread. I'm a college student and a student pilot looking to get into the airlines. I have been wondering this and this would be the perfect time to ask. Why is it that Fedex and UPS pays their pilots a lot? Is it because it's hard flying? Do they have a hard time finding pilots? There must be a catch for getting paid over 100k your second year.
02-09-2006, 05:14 AM
#12
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
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Posts: 1,601
The question not asked
[QUOTE=Fly4Free] ..........I have been wondering this and this would be the perfect time to ask. Why is it that Fedex and UPS pays their pilots a lot? Is it because it's hard flying? Do they have a hard time finding pilots? There must be a catch for getting paid over 100k your second year. [/QUOTE
Let me answer the second question first. Because of the rapid growth in flying to China in recent history, coupled with the necessary increase in widebodies (at Fedex), and decrease is norrowbodies (727's going away) new hires are moving into the widebody earlier and earlier in their careers. Soon Fedex will hire directly into the right seat of all its widebodies.
Pay rates for widebodies are greater than narrow (for a given seat position) and, (presumably) when the rates were agreed upon, no one really believed that any pilots on the property less than 4 or 5 years, let alone first year, would be payed at these rates.
The first question suggests to me that you are either unaware of the pay scales at the legacy pax carriers a couple of years ago, or, as some posters suggest, pilot pay in general is (too?) high and why would any one pay a freight pilot more than (a real
) passenger pilot?
Fedex and UPS did not start out paying the top scale, its just that the benchmark of airline flying (capt, widebody, UAL, Delta NWA and AA) the pay the industry and media like to quote when telling all how overpaid we are, it has gone down while we have remained static. Both Fedex and UPS are in negotiations for contracts that ended well over a year ago (two in the case of UPS) and pay that has (relative to inflation) decreased or at best remained static, for the better part of ten years.
The question not in your post is, "why has airline pay at the top airlines eroded so much". We are not making more (although I would agree, it is a most excellent time for a young airmen to start at Fedex) they are making less.
Come on Skyhigh I'm waiting for your response
Let me answer the second question first. Because of the rapid growth in flying to China in recent history, coupled with the necessary increase in widebodies (at Fedex), and decrease is norrowbodies (727's going away) new hires are moving into the widebody earlier and earlier in their careers. Soon Fedex will hire directly into the right seat of all its widebodies.
Pay rates for widebodies are greater than narrow (for a given seat position) and, (presumably) when the rates were agreed upon, no one really believed that any pilots on the property less than 4 or 5 years, let alone first year, would be payed at these rates.
The first question suggests to me that you are either unaware of the pay scales at the legacy pax carriers a couple of years ago, or, as some posters suggest, pilot pay in general is (too?) high and why would any one pay a freight pilot more than (a real
) passenger pilot?Fedex and UPS did not start out paying the top scale, its just that the benchmark of airline flying (capt, widebody, UAL, Delta NWA and AA) the pay the industry and media like to quote when telling all how overpaid we are, it has gone down while we have remained static. Both Fedex and UPS are in negotiations for contracts that ended well over a year ago (two in the case of UPS) and pay that has (relative to inflation) decreased or at best remained static, for the better part of ten years.
The question not in your post is, "why has airline pay at the top airlines eroded so much". We are not making more (although I would agree, it is a most excellent time for a young airmen to start at Fedex) they are making less.
Come on Skyhigh I'm waiting for your response
02-09-2006, 05:54 AM
#13
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Posts: 1,126
Originally Posted by Fly4Free
Sorry to highjack the thread. I'm a college student and a student pilot looking to get into the airlines. I have been wondering this and this would be the perfect time to ask. Why is it that Fedex and UPS pays their pilots a lot? Is it because it's hard flying? Do they have a hard time finding pilots? There must be a catch for getting paid over 100k your second year.
02-09-2006, 06:06 AM
#14
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 173
Fly4Free.
I think as a college student making over 100,000 sounds like a great thing, and it is. But, there are points to remember about the industry in general, some of which the above post already has covered. It costs more to make it to a major airline today than it would cost to become a Doctor. We are required to maintain a 1st class medical every 6 months. We are evaluated(ie. job on the line) twice a year in the simulator, and once a year in the airplane. Many of our pilots are out of the country 2 weeks out of the month, and fly over holidays, kids birthdays, and other family dates that are tought to miss out on. At Fedex and Ups where do you think most of the profits come from.... Air freight. That freight does not move without us in the seats.
I think a more appropriate question would have been, why with the economic status of the airline industry are the top execs paid sooooo much while those that actually drive the profits are paid so little. Look at the airlines that continue to wash money down the drain, but the CEO gets 15 million at the end of the year. At Fedex that bonus is paid to more like the top 20 execs.
The biggest reason Fedex pilots are paid over $100k the second year was covered above as well, I just want to force the point home. Fedex has a much, much larger percentage of wide body aircraft. In fact the only narrow body airplane we fly in the 727. Hence, chances are greater here than other places to make it to the wide body quicker, and make a LITTLE more money.
I do not know where you are going to college, and I wish you success, but do not think we are overpaid. Compared to what everyone else at Fedex is making, I think I am well UNDERPAID.
I think as a college student making over 100,000 sounds like a great thing, and it is. But, there are points to remember about the industry in general, some of which the above post already has covered. It costs more to make it to a major airline today than it would cost to become a Doctor. We are required to maintain a 1st class medical every 6 months. We are evaluated(ie. job on the line) twice a year in the simulator, and once a year in the airplane. Many of our pilots are out of the country 2 weeks out of the month, and fly over holidays, kids birthdays, and other family dates that are tought to miss out on. At Fedex and Ups where do you think most of the profits come from.... Air freight. That freight does not move without us in the seats.
I think a more appropriate question would have been, why with the economic status of the airline industry are the top execs paid sooooo much while those that actually drive the profits are paid so little. Look at the airlines that continue to wash money down the drain, but the CEO gets 15 million at the end of the year. At Fedex that bonus is paid to more like the top 20 execs.
The biggest reason Fedex pilots are paid over $100k the second year was covered above as well, I just want to force the point home. Fedex has a much, much larger percentage of wide body aircraft. In fact the only narrow body airplane we fly in the 727. Hence, chances are greater here than other places to make it to the wide body quicker, and make a LITTLE more money.
I do not know where you are going to college, and I wish you success, but do not think we are overpaid. Compared to what everyone else at Fedex is making, I think I am well UNDERPAID.
02-09-2006, 06:07 AM
#15
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Math Teacher
Posts: 2,274
2nd year Widebody W-2 at FedEx
Can you make that kind of cash (according to APC's FedEx payscale and other testimonials on this thread) as an FO on the A-300 domestic routes? I mean strictly flying the A-300 here in the states and being home every night? Does such a situation exists now?
02-09-2006, 06:18 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld
The catch is you have to spend 10 years active duty in the military or spend 100K in costs for ratings and lost earnings flying for peanuts at the regionals. I am worth every damn penny and more! Fly for free? Hell no, and I do not apologize for it.
By the time you get to second year pay at UPS or FedEx you've been at this gig for quite some time. It's not like we're talking about your second year out of college. I didn't earn more than $30,000 yr. as a pilot 'til I was 28. I think your perspective is skewed.
And insofar as dckozak's response, it sounds to me as if you're making excuses for second year pay being what it is on your wide body scale:
"...when the rates were agreed upon, no one really believed that any pilots on the property less than 4 or 5 years, let alone first year, would be payed at these rates."
What's your point?
EDPM
02-09-2006, 06:20 AM
#17
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Posts: 173
Originally Posted by atpwannabe
Can you make that kind of cash (according to APC's FedEx payscale and other testimonials on this thread) as an FO on the A-300 domestic routes? I mean strictly flying the A-300 here in the states and being home every night? Does such a situation exists now?
Yes you can. But hopefully under a new contract it will be more.
02-09-2006, 11:55 AM
#18
done, gone skiing
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Originally Posted by EDPM
...............And insofar as dckozak's response, it sounds to me as if you're making excuses for second year pay being what it is on your wide body scale:
"...when the rates were agreed upon, no one really believed that any pilots on the property less than 4 or 5 years, let alone first year, would be payed at these rates."
What's your point?
EDPM
"...when the rates were agreed upon, no one really believed that any pilots on the property less than 4 or 5 years, let alone first year, would be payed at these rates."
What's your point?
EDPM
) if you are lucky enough to hire when such a seat progression is possible. I doubt Fedex management would have agreed to the widebody rate (early years) on the last contract if they really believed anyone would actually fly that seat position (in such an early point in ones career). Just MHO.
02-09-2006, 01:54 PM
#20
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Can you make that kind of cash (according to APC's FedEx payscale and other testimonials on this thread) as an FO on the A-300 domestic routes? I mean strictly flying the A-300 here in the states and being home every night? Does such a situation exists now?
A 2nd yr FO on the A-300 will be sitting reserve, not holding a line. So if you live in MEM you might be home MOST nights. What airline can you fly your schedule and be home every night. other than FDX am/pm out and backs. But you will make more than 100k fer sure!
A 2nd yr FO on the A-300 will be sitting reserve, not holding a line. So if you live in MEM you might be home MOST nights. What airline can you fly your schedule and be home every night. other than FDX am/pm out and backs. But you will make more than 100k fer sure!
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