IPAMD11FO

There may be a push, but I don't see FO's getting 80% of Capt pay - ever. Captains are the ones who have to put up with all the crap from the company - explain late departures, logbook stuff, etc. Personally, I will not upgrade for a 20% raise and give up all of the QOL benefits that goes along being a senior FO.

Negotiations here are probably like everywhere else. Everyone talks about supporting each demographic group, but in the end, it comes down to "what's in it for me"? You are right. It will get interesting.

roadwarrior

I'm not a "don't pick it up so I can upgrade faster" guy, but I do get to listen to many whine about their seniority while sitting next to them on a trip they picked up......I also listen to the union.

While I am philosophically against OT pickups, I don't have too much issue with what you are saying as far as it being your "contractual right". (So is flying every leg, etc, but it's just bad form.) However, we are currently going backwards in our manning, the union is sending us memos regarding this subject, and refers to OT and JA pickup as a company tool in their model to sustain the operation. Again, I say read between the lines......they ARE saying don't pick up open time....it's all right there for you to read if you want to. The trouble is people see what they want to, and OT pick up is ingrained into this pilot group, and won't change until we get a lower cap negotiated.... which will never happen.

The facts are simple though: For every 2-3 trips a month that get picked up by anyone, CA or FO, the company saves the cost of hiring 1 pilot-month of labor. During our contract negotiations, the union's figure on block hours picked up from open time was in excess of 73, 000 hours that year! Sorry, but your "contractual rights" aside, I thought that was pretty damn shameful.

de727ups

I'm still trying to figure out why I should make a personal sacrifice to not cherry pick the open time, for the landings (which I need) and for the extra cash, so that another guy can get hired at UPS. I understand your point of view but I'm not swayed by your argument.

Back in the old days Sutton would come out and say "Boys, we should all enjoy our time off this summer". I don't see that sort of strong signal in the memo's you mention.

TimSmith

Like he said, you see what you want to see. It's evident in most of your posts that you have a limited ability to accept others experiences and points of view as having equal weight. While I am not at UPS, and consider UPS to be a great company, I can easily see the request as a pilot group to not pick up OT while displacements are happening as reasonable. You already state very happily that you don't care when FOs upgrade. Do you even care if their QOL is now diminished because you feel $200K+ is not enough to live on?

Hard to run a union without unity.

CactusCrew

It's not just to "get another guy hired" at UPS. It is to benefit the seniority of those already here, when more are added to the bottom. Rising tides lift all boats equally ...

Landings ? Extra Cash ? I thought you felt that time off and quality of life meant a lot more to you than money ...

I need landings too ... but I'm stuck on reserve for the long haul it looks like. So I'll just have to adapt to a lack of landings, or a long commute ... or BOTH ...

I don't know who Sutton is (former IPA pres I guess), but I do agree. A statement like what you mentioned would be the strongest signal possible. The current one is weak but politically it is the most that can be said ...

SaltyDog

Unity requires sacrifice on everyones part. Just because the contract allows it, one must logically apply the circumstance to which it is applied to see if it benefits the group, thus the individual. The contract is laden with language to give the company operational flexibility at our expense and for their thrift and business necessities. Example: Management Emergency Flying. No limits, get a trip inside 24 hours and it is theirs. I don't like management reminding me that "the contract allows it".
We have a contract, but it requires a personal sacrifice to enforce the contract for the benefit of your fellow pilot. UPS does not enforce, takes great pride in the fact that only 10% or so will grieve a blatant violation. They win every time it is not grieved. It is a painful exercise to file a grievance. UPS wants to drag it out to make you sure you will be exasperated with the IPA's inability to settle and never file again. It works. Ask any Grievance committee volunteer. This lack of ownership hurts everyone, thus the individual.
Tough to write a contract to protect a QOL with an employer AND from your fellow pilots at the same time. I push for someway to autofile a grievance process. I can't file for my crewmembers, since I'm not personally aggrieved even though it is a violation of MY contract, but I can urge them to do so. Sadly, the response is. "Why bother", and then continue to complain. Such irony.

IPAMD11FO

Nice post roadwarrior.

The EB stated in an advisory that the company is counting on OT pickup to keep the system running. We can't legally call for an OT ban unless a furlough is announced. Exactly what do you want to hear before you stop OT pickup? I respect your right to do so, but find it difficult to believe that you do not see the big picture.

CactusCrew

Probably that your position is being realigned and you will have to retrain and move or commute again ...

That's the big picture ... until these reallignments and displacements get real personal and affect more individually, there will be no effective reaction from the union or its members.

Roberto

I don't think so. That 73,000 hours is only 7 hours per pay period per reserve. An easy number for UPS to handle with the reserves.

Airbum

Personally I think if UPS is a great company to work for it is because of the unity of the pilot group.

As UPS scraps the older airframes from the fleet nothing will stop the displacements. Also they have a nonunion workforce with no contract that will fly all everything not covered by the union pilots.