FedEx pilots lost their hats
 

In Memphis the other day I saw over a dozen FedEx pilots in uniform, but none was wearing a hat. UPS pilots seem to don theirs in the terminal, however. A culture thing, or a contract thing?

Light in the loafers?
 

Hat is optional. The guys with big watches were hats.:D

If they were hats, what are they now?



I wear a hat because I'm not satisfied with the pace of contract negotiations. I wear it to remind myself to give 100.0% every day, every leg.

The sort is 30 minutes late. Hmmm. The Flight Plan says M0.80. The route of flight has a lot of twists and turns. Nice scenery. The ramp agent says the airplane will be ready 20 minutes early. That's nice. The scheduled deadhead has just been cancelled. Oh, well.


The day we ratify a contract that recognizes our contribution to this company's tremendous success and profitablity, I'll leave my hat at home and bring my goodwill to work. Until then, the goodwill is on the shelf in the closet, and the hat covers my head.


:)


(Oh, and my watch is a $17 Armitron from KMart. I'm on the second battery, now. :))



- The truth only hurts if it should -

I just want to add to Tony. I was at the ALPA meeting in AOC last night during our 2 hour late sort. First off it is amazing to me how many of our pilots can not take 15 minutes to stop surfing ebay to listen to our leaders. The main discussion point last night was the scope payment. Guys were extremely unhappy that they have not received there $500.00. Our Leadership explained that this money may be used towards other parts of contract negotiations. We had about 25 pilots outraged and wanted their money. Really, it is only about $325.00 after taxes. Who cares!!! Trust what our Leadership is doing and support them in their endeavors.

Tony makes some great points. But also stop the draft, vlt, makeup, vacation sell back. We will not get a contract till we hurt the bottom line. But then again trying to get our pilot group to see the big picture will be a miracle in itself.

I happen to like the idea of using the scope money as one part of three, put together to reduce the medical insurance premiums for our retired pilots. However, I don't want to let the company off the hook for fixing the problem. While I always want more money, this seems to me to be a much better use of our scope money.

BTW, this is just the first of two scope payments. The scope payment under discussion covered two months, the next one will cover three months. The next payment is not being considered for an insurance offset so the MEM whiners will get some cash.

I really don't want to flame the MEM guys (I'm in ANC) but I'm SO TIRED of hearing about how MEM has no clue about how to handle themselves during a contract negotiation. The previous comment about guys staying on the computers rather than attend a union meeting seems so typical. Thank you guys who went to the union meeting for showing the slow leaks what's really important right now.

I'm wearing my hat, no draft, no volunteer, and I'm taking your vacation. There's no reason why 100% isn't good enough. They want more? Then resolve our contract.

...I meant I'm taking MY vacation...

Better proof reading need I...

Oops. on the were, should have been wear that's what happens when you get cute and count on spellcheck to fix your boo boo's. :eek:

Regarding hats. I've got mine and have worn it several times in recent weeks, only to be the only hat guy in AOC. It didn't make much of a statement and few people, possibly none , understood why I was wearing it, just thought I was one of the few (and strange??:p ) hat guys. Hard to make a point when so few are doing so with you.

Yep, I'd have to say the majority of FDX pilots (not us, of course) don't lurk on these boards or know anything about the hats. I know when I see one in the AOC, my first thought is "eccentric" followed by "I wonder if he used to fly pax." The last thought is about negotiations. Maybe someone could come up with a less nerdy way to outwardly show support, short of wearing giant signs on our backs, of course. One quick way is for everyone to wear the ALPA lanyards. See lots and lots of new-hires wearing the cute little orange and purple "management pilot" lanyards you buy at the corporate store. Not sure what's up with that. Maybe cause all they see in the first few weeks is mgt types who are wearing the same thing.

Hats
 

Deuce I've been here 13 years and spent 8 years at 2 other PAX carriers........Picketed at one. During normal ops.....(meaning working under a current contract).....No hat required. Your negotiating committee needs any and all support you can give......................

It has been said before until we get a deal.....do your job at 100%....no more.
Wear your ALPA lanyard, Wear your ALPA Pin on your Tie and join the informational Picket lines when asked...............Yes wear your "NERDY" HAT
too. Take it off when we get a deal. I picketed during last contract negotiations on Wall Street. It was a little chilly so we all had our trench coats on. None of us had hats. As people walked by us while we held our signs................They had no idea who or what we were. When the Northwest guys walked about 7 years ago..........they were all decked out in full uniforms, yes with their nerdy hats..........but there was no doubt that they were ailrines pilots.............They settled into a pretty decent contract about 10 days later.

Sorry, Redeye, didn't mean to insult anyone. I will agree, that if the nuclear option hits and we actually picket, then yes, let's wear our hats. Guys on the street won't know what it is we do unless we complete the image by wearing the hats. With that said, the hat idea isn't picking up any steam that I can see in the AOC. Sure, a few guys wear them but the lack of guys wearing them can almost have a negative effect. When guys say show support by wearing your hat, then noone does, what message does that send? And why won't guys wear the hats? B/c most guys can't stand them. So, why don't we shoot for a visible show of support that everyone can get behind?

I realize I risk being labeled eccentric. (And I may be, but that's beside the point. :) ) I know that every time I fly, I get to talk to two more people and remind them where our focus should be. I get a lot of strange looks, but I also get a question or two, and I get more chances to share with them my disappointment with the progress of negotiations, and my enthusiasm for doing my job 100.0%. I take the opportunity to remind folks where they can get their own hat if they don't own one already, and encourage them to wear their own whenever they feel like it.

ALPA lanyards, ALPA pins, ALPA bag tags, the new RED bag tags... these are all things we should all be doing. While I could rant and rave at those who don't, I prefer to quietly "lead by example." It takes no more than a glance at me or my bags to know with confidence that I stand behind our union, and you can count on me to do the right thing. Anybody else can do the same thing. If you, or anybody else for that matter, feel more comfortble not being the only one in AOC with a hat, let me know when you'll be there and I'll stand next to you. It's high time we stopped being afraid to make a statement.


This is the easy stuff.








- The truth only hurts if it should -

No insult taken...............You don't need to be on strike to Picket........................We have had 4 or more informational pickets so far............ I concur with Tony C. I quit looking what other people are doing and Support my Union anyway they ask me to.........Stickers. Pins, Lanyards, Bag tags and Yes HATS. I show up to meetings and all rallies when possible.

If it comes to need to Withhold services..........There should be little doubt that I will be shoulder to shoulder with Tony and the reset of the Fedex Pilots.

So will I, fellas, so will I. I guess I better a get a hat on order....

Whiners!!!!!
 

I can't believe you guys! You've got, arguably, the most stable, best paying, best benefits flying job that's out there and all I hear is a bunch of whining and crying! There are literally thousands of pilots out there who would give their left nut for what you have and your talking about why or why not to wear a hat???? Jeez, you guys have a great career, one of the few in the flying industry today, why not be satisfied with that? Do you always have to whine for more no matter how much you've been given?

You definately live up to your screen name.

That's funny! :eek: :D



Fred?!?! Is that you? :p



(Why are we limited to using only 3 images? I needed far more Smilies for this one!)

- The truth only hurts if it should -

And you obviously don't understand this whole thread. You don't get it! This has nothing to do with what we have or have been given. It's about the effort to get a fair contract.

Reread the thread. If you grasp the concept, congratulations. If not bend over, grab your ears and pull your head out of your a$$.

Ignorance is Bliss
 

I'm guess Stupid is just another outsider wannabee who would love to be an airline capt, right now, and would happily do so for peanuts just because he knows its just a lot of fun and easy.:rolleyes:
There are whole threads of them here; probably never left the traffic pattern, never been awake for 16 hours let alone work that long. Jet lag?, read about it in a text book. Only been awake past 3am on prom night. Ahha to be young, dumb, and know everything!;)

dckozak-
I tried to send you a pm, but I can't access my inbox since I'm a newbie. Send me an email to [email protected]

For stupidpilot:

You never know what someone's life is really like until you walk a mile in their shoes. It's apparent to me and my fellow freighters here, that you do not do what we do. And until you do spend time doing what we do, you will have zero credibility with any of us.

Our job is much different than you may have gleened from movies or novels and it has dramatically changed in the last 5-10 years when management altered the playing field on us. Loyality is expected but not given, honesty is demanded but not returned, the general good of running a quality business has given way to doing anything to make a buck for management and shareholders while at the expense of the employees, and I could go on. I highly encourage you get copies of Flying the Line, Part 1 and 2. It will open your eyes and broaden your perspective.

You would be better served to do what any new employee anywhere should do: observe what goes on, try and watch from the perspective of both sides and keep your opinions to yourself until you have been on the job for a year. Then you'll have gained two things: insight into the background issues, and credibility among your peers.

Sent you a note. Check your email. If you don't get it let me know on this thread

OK stupidpilot got jumped on pretty good there but I have to ask a question along the same lines. Exactly what are the things that are unfair in the current contract. I'm not asking b/c I think you guys are whining or that the contract is fair but more so b/c I hope to work there soon and I'm curious what the problem is. I know several FDX pilots both NH and guys who have been there a while (10-15 yrs) and most say they're pretty happy.

BTW, I'm not one of those guys who "never left the pattern" as was previously mentioned. I welcome a 16 hr day b/c I usually do 20-24, 3am is usually about the time I coast out after air refueling 12 hours into my duty day, and the idea of having a clue when are where i'm flying more than 3 days out is unheard of. Obviously, I'm a military pilot and I'm not trying to make this into a battle of who has the harder job but hopefully that gives me enough credibility to ask the above question. Once again if you guys are getting screwed or not fairly compensated then you should definitely take it to the leadership but for a guy on the outside looking in what is the foul against the company?

Its not about Hats
 

"Screwed" is a pretty strong word, I doubt you'd find many FDX pilots who think their "screwed". We are negotiating with a very successful company which has fought tooth and nail to not have to deal with its pilots on issues that concern us. :(
Pay is only one of several issues we wish to improve. We all understand the reality of those in our profession, that said, we shouldn't have to lose ground to inflation, as we have (averaged) over a multi year period when the company is rolling in cash. We have been negotiation over 2 years!! we just want to get our piece of the pie and live long enough to enjoy it. If your flying in the kind of conditions we are you are aware of how (your body) can be abused. Fatigue is a big issue at Fedex as it is in many international freight and pax carriers. Maybe your still pretty young (less than 30??:cool: ) wait till you over 40, still doing the a round the world thing with very long duty days, landing 12 hours out of sync. You will (or do) understand some of our issues.
Good luck and gives us a holler when we pass over the North Atl.

The big issues for me are retirement and scheduling with medical protection right up there.

Retirement is critical. Our B Plan in fine. At 6% I always thought that it was sufficient. But with defined benefit programs under an intense assault I'd like to see it beefed up to at least 8%.

And with regard to the A Plan, I'd love to see a 100% cash buyout. Some lower percentage would be better than nothing. But my gut says none of that is going to happen. I don't even think that they'd agree to annuitize some or all of it. They are just fine with us hanging on the word and success of the company. Why are we so concerned about retirement? Well, other than the common sense part of the answer, our beloved management has their own, seperate 'golden parachute' retirement that they are entitled to. And I can assure you that it does not depend on the company's success.

Scheduling is also a biggie. Our schedules are built by computer. The regular lines are reviewed by a scheduling committee that has no teeth. They can declare a pairing as a 'disputed pairing' but almost always someone is still going to fly it. That pairing won't go into a regular line but it will go into open time and be flown by a reserve pilot or one of our resident idiots who thinks he knows more than our union. Since the introduction of the computer program that helps scheduling generate our flying (we call it the sodomizer) the quality of life has taken a severe dump. More hard time, less rest and our bodies are constantly transitting time zones. It plays hell with the circadian cycle.

I wish that I had kept the update that our union sent to us in December. If I remember correctly our beloved management has enjoyed raises that have added up to over 80% in the past few 5 years or so. The regular employees have gotten something like 3%. That doesn't even keep pace with inflation. Our beloved management gets bonuses. Not one regular employee gets a bonus. They took them away 'temporarily' after 9/11. Our beloved management gets stock options. They took away the good deal that we had on stock purchases (not options, purchases) back in the early 90's. They were worried that we were making too much money on them. They get tickets to sporting events that are paid for by the company worth thousands of dollars.

As you can see, I hope, this is an issue of fairness as much as anything else. FedEx is HUGELY profitable. Our beloved management refuses to share any of those profits with the people who bust their collective asses making it happen. I belong to a union. I want that union to negotiate a fair contract on our collective behalf based on the company's profitability.

I love my job. I work for a good company. I do NOT work for nice people. I can hear one of them right now. "Come here, Mom. That's right. Bend over so I can make a few more bucks."

FedUp Drivers
 

I kinda got the impression that you didn't think the union was taking a hard enough stance in negotiations, do you think they are or arn't. When do you go back to negotiations and if they are unsuccessful do you think a strike would be out of the question? Lastly, it's been mentioned that you all have been without a contract for the last 2 years, how can they get away that, and why has it been so long? Is it just that both sides can't come to an agreement?

Good luck on the negotiations, I hope the FedEx will quickly realize the asset the pilots are to the company and give you what you rightfully deserve.

Gee, I've been flying unscheduled freight for 5 years for peanuts on crappy old dangerous aircraft. Again I say you guys have it so nice but you can't see how good you have it so all you do is whine.

Yep, he's still stupid...

Why would you do that? I mean I like to eat ice cream, but I would not do it for a living if the pay was peanuts. I work at UPS and love to fly. I do not do it as a hobby and will not continue to do it without a 40% pay raise. Mgt is highly versed in negotiations and pilots will never be overpaid. CPAs, lawyers, and other highly trained and educated professions make what FedEx pilots do. DO you think they are all overpaid? This is America and you get what you negotiate.

Originally Posted by stupidpilot
Gee, I've been flying unscheduled freight for 5 years for peanuts on crappy old dangerous aircraft. Again I say you guys have it so nice but you can't see how good you have it so all you do is whine.


Go back to your Jr management cubicle

And when you get to where we are, you will be just as whiny as we are. :) While you have been acquiring your time flying junk around, some of us have been getting our asses shot at in numerous places around the world, missing anniversaries, b-days etc. None of this is easy. If it was easy, every swinging dick on the planet would be doing it. Whether you come up through the military or through civilian training, by the time they let you fly by yourself or put you in charge of a multiplace aircraft crewed by intelligent, highly trained aviators, you should have that perspective. Quit complaining that other people have it better than you and work towards getting to that level. Get the education, get the ratings, network and maybe in a few years we can all take you to task for whining that your contract sucks. You should be that lucky! Now get out there and move my checks!

Were the IDs "IdiotPilot" or Dumb$hitPilot already taken?

If you haven't walked a mile in our shoes, shut the hell up! You DON'T have the SLIGHTEST inkling about the subject you deign to pontificate upon!

There has been NO good faith negotiation on the part of management for a LONG time. The current contract, which is long expired, was a LOUSEY contract when it was first proposed . . YEARS ago. It was ratified because the pilot group was weary . . and a bunch of pussies, who were too beat down to fight the good fight.

This pilot group earns BILLIONS for a very successful corporation . .and deserves a LOT more than what they are working for . .NOT to mention working conditions, back side of the clock flying and getting the boxes there, sometimes under very difficult conditions.

SO. . bug off and go bother someone where you actually know something about the situation!

WAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! I make well over $100K a year with all kinds of bennies and I still think I'm being screwed! My pu$$y hurts! WAAAAAAAA!!!!

By the way I fly a DC-10 skippy.

Congrats, you fly a widebody for less than a 100 grand. Stupidpilot really fits.

Gee what a great retort

Nice little airplane. The last plane I flew carried almost as much gas as you gross out at. If you don't like flying DC10s for less than 100K (Gemini or World?) then find another job.

Improve what you have
 

Ok I'm going to jump back in here and (hopefully) not just verbally beat you with a stick.:p
Just because your working for a company that doesn't pay the same as Fedex, UPS, DHL, doesn't mean we should sit back and not try to improve our lot and get an improvement in our working conditions/benefits. As has been posted by others, we want to fix some short comings in our retirement, work rules (read: long duty day= fatigue) and some other issues. And yes, we would like more money. Maybe we make more than you, but just because some earn less doesn't mean we should settle for less. You and your colleagues need to improve your lot, not suggest we be happybecause we don't have your pay and working conditions. There are all kinds of posts on this BB from non pilot and pilots alike, that suggest we (pilots in general) should lower our expectations and work for less; we're over paid, or were and now ain't; there are some who still think a UAL capt making more than 100K is over paid. I'm guessing at your company the guys who push the freight on your jet think your over paid. Should you work for less because the loader guy makes half what you do??:rolleyes:
We all are just trying to improve our lot. Some airlines are making money and the executives are rewarding themselves. Look at AA and what going on there. Fedex and UPS are doing well, mgt's are rewarding themselves. we don't think we should have to apologize for trying to fix/improve our lot.

Take It While U Can Get It
 

HOW MUCH SHOULD YOU GET PAID.....?
Food for thought from an ex-ALPA member about All of this pay talk.....

ALL OF U FEDEX/UPS/DHL SHOULD TAKE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN GET, BECAUSE I DO NOT BELIEVE ITS GOING TO LAST FOREVER...I DO NOT BELIEVE THE FREIGHT INDUSTRY IS INSULATED FROM WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE REST OF THE AIRLINE BIZ ...AS SOON AS A LOW COST FREIGHT OPTION EQUAL TO SOUTHWEST PENETRATES THE FREIGHT INDUSTRY YOUR DAYS WILL BE NUMBERED AS WELL ( I WAS TALKING TO A LONG TERM SOUTHWEST ADMINISTRATIVE EMPLOYEE AND WAS TOLD THEY ARE PLANNING TO CONVERT 8 73,s FOR FREIGHT ONLY)......YESTERDAY I SENT AN OVERNIGHT LETTER FROM FLORIDA TO DALLAS AND THE CHARGE WAS $22 AND CHANGE....AS THOSE PRICES CONTINUE TO RISE THE BUSINESSES THAT USE THOSE SERVICES WILL SEEK LOWER COST ALTERNATIVES---AND IF THERE IS ONE AVAIL, THE SAME WILL HAPPEN IN FREIGHT THAT HAS HAPPENED IN PAX SERVICE......

WHAT IS A REAL TRAGEDY IS THE CNN INTERVIEW I WATCHED WITH A RETIRED UAL PILOT .....

They interviewed him on the first day of his new job that he was forced to take after 29 years with UAL.....since the bankruptcy...all of his stock he held was worthless and his pension was reduced to a 25% of what it should have been......

BEWARE, YOUR PENSION FUND WILL BE NEXT, WHEN TIMES GET HARD..

While I naturally hope you're wrong, I have begun getting a second degree in something outside flying for the reason you mention. An express delivery company requires so much infrastrusture in terms of sort facilities, couriers and such that I cannot foresee a cheap startup moving in and taking that over from FDX and UPS...but then none of us ever envisioned a SWA scenario, deregulation, or the devestating corporate rape of legacy airlines' assets just to make a quick buck for shareholders and management.

Times have changed and any pilot who has all their eggs tied up in just one skill set or one company is in for a rude awakening.

I think Fr8er makes a good point as far as other threats to the industry go. I also did a study few years back on how a lot of the paper documents being shipped overnight for signatures and whatnot will soon be able to be done electronically and consequently reduce the need for so much overnight shipping. Now I cant remember what percentage of FedEx shipping is small documents but it is something to consider.

As for the pay issue I think there's a balance. I understand the argument that if the company is doing well then the people working hard to move the cargo should get a piece (regardless of what other companies pay their pilots)...but that may come at an additional cost. FDX could hit hard times in the near future for any number of reasons and having to continue to pay 4000+ pilots the same pay they had during the profitable years could be a huge blow (b/c a pay cut would probably meet strong opposition). The legacy carriers are not suffering now b/c of 9/11. They were poorly managed before the attacks and 9/11 broke the camel's back. Before 2001 I knew an AA pilot making well over 200k and was flying 6 days a month. I think both Delta and United Capts were getting about the same and this was 5 years ago. A nice as that sounds to me as a pilot it doesnt seem very smart from an economic standpoint for the company to pay a guy that much for 6 days of work. However, I do agree that your pay should at least keep up with inflation..and maybe thats all you guys are asking for. As for mgt if they're fattening their pockets b/c they can then thats not right either. I'd be curious to see the $ amount that was given mgt vs the $ amt to give the pilots a raise. Not that the $ dollar amt should be the determinant b/c if anything they should set the example (provided they werent underpaid). I guess all I'm saying is be careful what you ask for especially since FDX/UPS pilots are at the top of the aviation heap these days. Profitabilty today does not equal profitability tomorrow. You can get all the money you ask for but in 5 yrs if things arent going so well will you be willing to take a 25-40% paycut to help the company?