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I don't go above 250 below 10,

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Old 04-21-2008 | 08:53 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Chang
Is this a trick question?

If you read the FAR's, it specifically states that only the FAA "Administrator" can authorize >250kts below 10K .... not to be confused with "ATC" which the FAR's clearly differentiate as in the very next paragraph of the FAR's.


§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
Can't find anything concrete in the FOM or CFM to back this up right now, but I'm checking other sources...

FOM says to fly whatever is in the CFM...



My understanding is, we (FedEx) don't routinely operate under FAR part 91 during revenue flights. I seem to recall from somewhere in the deep foggy recesses that we can only accept speeds higher than 250 KIAS below 10K outside the domestic United States (no class D airspace outside the U.S.) if specifically requested by ATC (ie: "maintain 280 knots for spacing...")or if clean minimum maneuvering speed is higher than 250kts. Captain's judgement applies on this one. High speed approved, or maintain high speed simply means fly 250 KIAS. We are still required to comply with the most restrictive limit unless a specific speed is given by ATC.

Last edited by subicpilot; 04-21-2008 at 12:01 PM. Reason: Accuracy.
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Old 04-21-2008 | 09:35 AM
  #22  
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What did you hit? It looks like a dog or something.
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Old 04-21-2008 | 10:33 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ppilot
What did you hit? It looks like a dog or something.
He didn't, someone else did. He found it hanging around over at pilots4rent.com!

http://pilots4rent.com/scgi-bin/if/i...=ST;f=40;t=127

2 wks ago, COS, on departure, 2000-400ft AGL. Each engine got a bird too.

http://pilots4rent.com/5483.pdf
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Old 04-21-2008 | 10:44 AM
  #24  
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One more:

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Old 04-21-2008 | 11:20 AM
  #25  
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Hi!

You might change your mind about the 250 below 10 if you had ATC screaming at you and they sounded like someone was going to die pretty quick if you didn't go max speed ASAP!

cliff
YIP
PS-That's happened to me twice!
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Old 04-21-2008 | 11:59 AM
  #26  
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Use the Force to avoid the geese you must!!
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Old 04-21-2008 | 12:21 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Yoda
Use the Force to avoid the geese you must!!
Or, at least look out the windshield once in a while.

Knock on plastic (couldn't find wood), in flight, I've avoided the B -1 - R - Ds during daylight, without floating or squishing our pax.

All of my victims were hit at night. (Except a few tweety birds that refused to taxi clear of our landing runway in low visibilty)...
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Old 04-21-2008 | 02:00 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by subicpilot
Can't find anything concrete in the FOM or CFM to back this up right now, but I'm checking other sources...

FOM says to fly whatever is in the CFM...



My understanding is, we (FedEx) don't routinely operate under FAR part 91 during revenue flights. I seem to recall from somewhere in the deep foggy recesses that we can only accept speeds higher than 250 KIAS below 10K outside the domestic United States (no class D airspace outside the U.S.) if specifically requested by ATC (ie: "maintain 280 knots for spacing...")or if clean minimum maneuvering speed is higher than 250kts. Captain's judgement applies on this one. High speed approved, or maintain high speed simply means fly 250 KIAS. We are still required to comply with the most restrictive limit unless a specific speed is given by ATC.
WRT speed below 10K - Clearly there's a distinction between domestic and international ops.

From our FOM: 11.3 General Policies
"Flights over the high seas must comply with Annex 2 (Rules of the Air) to the Convention on International Civil Aviation (ICAO Rules). When operating within a foreign country, flights must comply with the regulations of that country. When a FAR Part 121 regulation is more restrictive, and may be followed without violating a foreign regulation, the Part 121 regulation applies (FAR 121.11 & 91.703)."

FAR 121.11 : Each certificate holder shall, while operating an airplane within a foreign country, comply with the air traffic rules of the country concerned and the local airport rules, except where any rule of this part is more restrictive and may be followed without violating the rules of that country.

FAR 91.703:***Operations of civil aircraft of U.S. registry outside of the United States.(a) Each person operating a civil aircraft of U.S. registry outside of the United States shall—(1) When over the high seas, comply with annex 2 (Rules of the Air) to the Convention on International Civil Aviation and with §§91.117(c), 91.127, 91.129, and 91.131;(2) When within a foreign country, comply with the regulations relating to the flight and maneuver of aircraft there in force;(3) Except for §§91.117(a), 91.307(b), 91.309, 91.323, and 91.711, comply with this part so far as it is not inconsistent with applicable regulations of the foreign country where the aircraft is operated or annex 2 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation; and... Notice that 91.703 also excludes FAR 91.117a when operating international.

That being said - While FAR 121 delineates the aircraft, aircrew training certification and equipment requirements, I'm not clear where it specifies General Operating and Flight Rules regarding airspeed.

§*91.1***Applicability.(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section and §§91.701 and 91.703, this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft (other than moored balloons, kites, unmanned rockets, and unmanned free balloons, which are governed by part 101 of this chapter, and ultralight vehicles operated in accordance with part 103 of this chapter) within the United States, including the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast.(b) Each person operating an aircraft in the airspace overlying the waters between 3 and 12 nautical miles from the coast of the United States must comply with §§91.1 through 91.21; §§91.101 through 91.143; §§91.151 through 91.159; §§91.167 through 91.193; §91.203; §91.205; §§91.209 through 91.217; §91.221; §§91.303 through 91.319; §§91.323 through 91.327; §91.605; §91.609; §§91.703 through 91.715; and §91.903.(c) This part applies to each person on board an aircraft being operated under this part, UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED.(d) This part also establishes requirements for operators to take actions to support the continued airworthiness of each airplane.

... which takes me back to the distinction between ATC and the Administrator per FAR 91.117a. My thinking is that the intent of this was for the Administrator to authorize >250kts below 10k to waiver special events, airshows, test/eval flights, etc. ... not for usage by ATC.
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Old 04-21-2008 | 02:03 PM
  #29  
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..........
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Old 04-21-2008 | 02:11 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 31wins
Since I've been a big time airline pilot (15yrs), it's been my experience that:

"I always do....this....that...or the other...." with respect to any particular situation or set of circumstances is BS.

It don't work that way.
Well big shot airline pilot, I always do if it makes sense.
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