After the dust settles from the excess bid closing 5 Jun, management will know where all the bodies lie and the associated costs. We will still be overmanned by 300-500 pilots. What are the chances the company will offer retirement incentive packages to the over 60 crowd? This is the most costly group in terms of pay rate and vacation, while typically the least productive when you consider sick leave and earned time off. It seems there could be a package that is a win-win situation for the company, the geezers, and the rest of the pilot group.

Is this a possibility or am I just dreaming?

 

In RGS a couple of weeks ago, Rosado said no early retirement packages. Not that it couldn't change, but apparently the bean counters have looked at it and decided it's cheaper to keep them.

 

Something that you are overlooking is that most of these guys don't want to retire, period! I talked with one of the geezers in training to come back to the front seat and he said he enjoyed it and did not want to retire. I guess it's fly till u die with some of these guys.

 

No A fund payout right now and shorter A-fund payout period when checks start. That savings in A-fund money is available for a little Sim time. But it is balanced against big vacation and sick time usage. The tie breaker is below.

It is likely some won't go to training. Too much of a hassle. Some might not make it thru training. Some old guys are hanging out hoping for passover. They will be disappointed, IMHO. The bottom line is a retirement package deal before training would not be optimal for the company accountants.

Retirements will occur, just not right now. It's a poker game and the cards are still being dealt.

 

I'm not sure I agree with your assumption that these geezers are so very expensive. The way I see it is the company would have to pay these guys ~$125,000/yr plus benefits to sit at home and watch soap operas and eat bon-bons (i.e. RETIRED).

If they continue to work, the would be retiree is, in effect, donating his/her entire retirement benefit to the company in order to subsidize their continued employment, They are basically paying the company their entire retirement benefit for the "opportunity" to continue to fly hub-turns at night?

I've NEVER understood the logic of this thought process, especially for the pilot that has completed their 25 years and maxed out their retirement (actually, after doing the math, I'm not sure it makes any sense even if you don't have your 25 years).

So ... I suppose (on paper at least) it could appear to the "bean counters" that they are getting the very most experienced pilots at a real bargain basement price (even if they do drool on themselves and wear diapers?). I suppose the real test will be if the company loses any revenue from the ND's going sick in the field, or worse, sick in flight and having to divert.

Personal note ... I think it's sad (maybe pathetic) that these guys don't have anything better to do with their lives after they've earned the very best retirement package in the industry these day. I have some suggestions for them: volunteer at your church or at a local school (GIVE SOMETHING BACK TO SOCIETY), get a hobby (do you like to golf, hunt or fish?), coach a kids sporting team, volunteer to the Civil Air Patrol (you could continue to fly and even wear your Captain uniform to the local general aviation airport, the young kids learning to fly will be very impressed and treat you like an aviation god!) . Or ... do ANYTHING you like to do; travel, spend time with the family, grandkids, build an airplane in your garage, restore an old car or house ..........

Go ahead JETJOK ... flame away

 

Don't always assume that Age equals seniority.
I don't have the real stats but I am willing to bet that 65% of the over 60 crowd doesn't have 25 years longevity. Many of the over 60 guys are Junior to me and I ain't real senior. Getting an additional 2% a year adds up when you don't have 25 years or 50%.

As far as the company offering Buy outs: in my humble opinion, they will only do so if it saves them money. Like you said, if a guy stays working and is a fairly reliable employee, that is 75 to130K in pension money the company doesn't have to pay (and 1 less year they will have to pay one). On the other hand if that Older person is calling in sick a lot and using every minute of his vacation wisely or goes on Long term disability, well that is a different story. I suspect the Company is taking a wait and see becasue they really don't know the answer either.

If you are talking about soley about the few that have already maxed out their retirement, I would agree with you, except if you are real Senior, they are making 260K plus vice the 130 K on their pension and they still don't have to work much. Plus they are padding their B fund a 401 for another 35K each year.

 

I agree, except, you really shouldn't count ALL of the 401k, just the company match (that pathetically paltry amount) and the tax bennie.

 

Where does this # come from? ---- can't be very accurate becuase it's variation is over 65%,

My guess is were 150-200 overmanned (tops)...and the company realizes the 777 is on the horizon; thus, laying off, only to rehire in the near future, does not make fiscal sense.

 

At RGS, Rosado said we are 350 pilots overmanned. Guess the actual number depends on who you ask.

 

????

Depends on how you look at it, but making bid packs at min BLG is not ideal. You can make the bid packs 6 hrs over min BLG very easily. The 727 bid pack came in well under 68 this month.

Don't even get me started on how the 727 bid pack is padded with record weekend layovers. Some are 84 hrs! Change those to double DHs and poof! Lots of flying hrs suddenly go away. The flying hours you see in the bid pack do not reflect those required to get the job done.

After the DC10 is parked it is 500 overmanned. Meaning you can accomplish the same cargo movement with 500 fewer pilots while not drafting excessively.

But don't take ANYONE'S word for it. Look at the bid packs and figure it out for yourself.