If someone is bound and determined to eat vomit.....I don't see the need to pour a little hot sauce on it to make it taste better. It is still vomit after all.

The guys that bid HKG scooped that vomit on their plate. I don't think anyone should've asked for a plate of vomit in the first place. Makes us all look like vomit eaters.

Now all they'll offer to feed us is vomit.....Push the plate away.

I think I'll vote no.

Okay...simply put...turning this down won't do dick for the guys already committed to going.

If we say "oh yeah...we'll SHOW YOU...and turn it down..." The company will say..."okay, fine. We'll pass on doing the housing deposits, extra hotel time, etc". And then they'll scare the bejesus out of some dudes into going anyway or convince some folks to go to HKG to keep flying a WB instead of a downgrading to a NB. Hong Kong is going to get filled--at least I think it will. Age 60 won't change, DW will still be MEC chariman, and we will still be dealing with excess bids.

Trust me guys--when I want you to fight I'll ask you. But I won't ask you to throw rocks at a machine gun. Pick your fights wisely.

I have been VERY open here--and I'm sure I'll take some heat for trying to engage on this forum vice saving it for more official media--but I am speaking as ME here. This is ONE guy, and ONE guy's opinion.

As for solutions--other than a call from Laughing Jackal today I've heard from nobody. Who out there has some better ideas? Care to offer your take on LOA improvements? How to mitigate the damage from excess bids? Better negotiation tactics? I say that not in a mocking tone, but in a genuine request for constructive input.

With that--I'll step back from this forum a bit. I'll gladly engage--take it to the ALPA webboards and we'll tear it up over there, or email me at my ALPA address and we can chat. I'll also put some dates out for some lunches around and about later in June and also in July. Even if we can't solve the world's problems, a good meal will make the day's effort more fun.

I have no issue with Albie at all...I don't think he wears a mustache, though I kid him about it.

He is making his decisions based on all the information he has and I trust and respect him. We may disagree on some things. He is trying to help out the guys in his block. Seems like those HKG guys are very junior. Kudos to him for doing it.

I am willing to listen to rational discussion from the likes of him and FE.....They have a better than even chance of changing my mind.

Like the Karas guy says though, You get what you negotiate for. If you don't ask and negotiate, it is not a negotiation, it is an acceptance at best. Personally, I don't want to be treated like a vomit eater.

Why not they played good cop, bad cop on the original LOA. The sad part, JL played the good cop and DW played the bad cop.

My solution, I am not voting. I hope it passes with a 62 to zip vote. The 50 FDA pilots and the MEC, everyone else abstains.

Dude, what is it with the vomit-eating obsession? You remind me of my dog.:eek:

Albie,

I agree turning the LOA down will not do anything. However, the MEC has failed the crew force miserably. At no time have they admitted making a mistake. Even now, after the numersous, albeit small, enhancements made by the company to the LOA, the MEC has yet to come down off their position that the LOA was the best they could negotiate. The fact is they never tried. They have not given full disclosure on the unions openings nor the company's openings. The only dissenting opinion they chastised during the "road shows" to the crew force. The MEC leadership, and I use that term very loosely, has lost all credibility. If they had come out after the enhancements and made a statement that they under-estimated the LOA and have learned from the mistake and in the future will make better decisions, it would have gone a long way. The MEC lackadasical attitude towards negotiating the LOA and never-ending effort in passing the "retro 65" have shown me who they represent, and it is not the entire crew force. I hope in the future we get new blood, like yourself, who stand up for the representative crewforce even if it goes against the MEC. I applaud your decision to be anactive representative in the union leadership.

I feel sorry for any guy coerced into bidding HKG as an F/O. If he has a wife and kids it will cost them dearly. You would be money ahead to be a S/O on the 727 in the US and save your marriage. I would advise anyone planning to bid this as an F/O to do plenty of research before committing to anything.

Albie - thanks for your thoughtful and rational posts on this forum. I hope you will consider continuing to monitor, and occasionally providing input when it is acceptable to do so.

A voice of reason is certainly always welcome among the normal mass hysteria...

Cheers.

Alright, so if I keep my seat in the bus...well that makes me even more junior. One of my big heartburns with LOA I was the STV and how it allows the junior folks to get sent every six months vice the 18months of the original contract(with the siba bid).

I still do not agree with the stv, I understand we have to cover the flying, but if the senior guys aren't EVER going to be affected by the month long vacation, I'm sorry but I will not vote for it.

Some of the shortcomings were addressed, yes it is better than the first, but the junior folks are still getting worked over.

Vote, because it will reach you(unless you are excessed back to the 72)

HJB

Albie,

You have my support. Voting yes. Keep up the good work.