FDX: Proposed FDA Amendment
07-01-2008 | 08:20 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
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This still isn't the best deal we can get! This is an incremental step to try and just 'barely' get crews interested. Also consider what we've given up, and where we've gone with disputed pairings. If it's up to the MEC and the SIG to agree to using a train to get from HKG to CAN, expect it to happen. It's better than the 4 hour g/t will be their excuse, especially when we arrive car-sick. And, when the HKG domiciled crews start having to use the train, expect the arbitrator to rule that if it's good enough for them - it's good enough for everybody. And, if it's good enough in HKG, it's good enough everyplace. Consider taking BART from OAK to SFO, or the train from KIX to Nambda Station. I think it's time to stop the bleeding and say NO. Give us what we deserve and we'll vote for it.
07-01-2008 | 08:23 AM
#13
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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Let me guess? Your (oooops, I mean you're) one of those ...
1. I vote for contracts and LOA's without EVER reading them kind of guys, or
2. I'll vote however my union leadership tells me to vote, or
3. This doesn't affect me so why should I be the least bit interested in this, or
4. You're an ND pretending to care about anything?
So ... which one is it?
1. I vote for contracts and LOA's without EVER reading them kind of guys, or
2. I'll vote however my union leadership tells me to vote, or
3. This doesn't affect me so why should I be the least bit interested in this, or
4. You're an ND pretending to care about anything?
So ... which one is it?
1. no
2. no
3. no
4. no
5. I'm just coming off of a great vacation, going through the mail...I saw the ballot and wanted a jump on the info.
Now put back your sucker. You're annoying some of the adults
.
07-03-2008 | 09:42 AM
#14
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 52
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Just for the record, I find the LOA to be sub-par as well, mostly for the housing allowance and STV provisions, but on the ground transport issue, I don't think it's as bad as everyone makes it out to be. For one thing, technically, they couldn't apply the LOA to make us use BART to get from OAK-SFO. Paragraph G 2 of the LOA states that it can only be done with SIG agreement between international locations. OAK/SFO, LAX/ONT, JFK/EWR wouldn't count. I guess with SIG approval, they could use a train to move us between FRA and CGN or NRT-NGO, as examples, but I've deviated and done that anyway. It was actually a pleasant way to travel. Personally, I think taking the train overseas is better than riding in the back of a car. If you take the LOA literally, I don't think they could make ANC/LAX/MEM 11 guys transiting HKG/CAN take the train, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that, they could find a loophole to get around it, but again, is a train really that bad? What's the difference between sitting in a seat on a train and a seat on a passenger airline flight?
07-03-2008 | 10:39 AM
#15
Part Time Employee
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
Just for the record, I find the LOA to be sub-par as well, mostly for the housing allowance and STV provisions, but on the ground transport issue, I don't think it's as bad as everyone makes it out to be. For one thing, technically, they couldn't apply the LOA to make us use BART to get from OAK-SFO. Paragraph G 2 of the LOA states that it can only be done with SIG agreement between international locations. OAK/SFO, LAX/ONT, JFK/EWR wouldn't count. I guess with SIG approval, they could use a train to move us between FRA and CGN or NRT-NGO, as examples, but I've deviated and done that anyway. It was actually a pleasant way to travel. Personally, I think taking the train overseas is better than riding in the back of a car. If you take the LOA literally, I don't think they could make ANC/LAX/MEM 11 guys transiting HKG/CAN take the train, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that, they could find a loophole to get around it, but again, is a train really that bad? What's the difference between sitting in a seat on a train and a seat on a passenger airline flight?
)? Can't say the ride would be as pleasant as riding in Japan or Germany. Remember once you give something away you will never get it back!
07-03-2008 | 11:36 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 129
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From: MD11 F/O
KDENPilot,
Good, bad, or neutral paragraph G provides the company with an ongoing benefit without providing similar compensation for crewmembers. What is in it for us?
Union communications claim that this section provides us with more options. Somebody please explain to me how this is the case. Your new train deviation ticket would most likely be less than any available flight.
You sound like someone who has no intention of bidding the HKG FDA. I would beware the unintended consequences of this LOA. What if a significant percentage of 11 capacity is moved to an FDA.
Good, bad, or neutral paragraph G provides the company with an ongoing benefit without providing similar compensation for crewmembers. What is in it for us?
Union communications claim that this section provides us with more options. Somebody please explain to me how this is the case. Your new train deviation ticket would most likely be less than any available flight.
You sound like someone who has no intention of bidding the HKG FDA. I would beware the unintended consequences of this LOA. What if a significant percentage of 11 capacity is moved to an FDA.
07-03-2008 | 12:29 PM
#17
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 52
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Jaxman,
No, I'm not bidding HKG, but I do realize that they could someday open a HKG MD11 base, in which case I would be affected. As a result, I'm voting against the LOA, just not because of the train issue. That part isn't a big thing for me, but the housing allowance and STV provisions are. Fix those, and I would vote differently.
Someone asked about trains in India or China. Nope, haven't done either, and don't plan to in India. Their rail safety is among the worst, if not the worst in the world. Between HKG and CAN, I would not be too worried, though. The LOA only allows for the use of a train between HKG/CAN and other international cities approved by the SIG. While our SIG may not always succeed when it comes to disputing pairings, I'm pretty sure we can count on them not to approve a long distance train ride such as SZX-PVG (800+ miles) or DEL-BOM (700+ miles.) The LOA may give an automatic blessing for 2:00+ g/t from HKG-CAN, but 8 B 1 b, requiring SIG approval for all g/t over 2 hours is still in effect everywhere else. HKG-CAN by train is only 1:40 according to what one of the SFS guys posted in another thread vs 3-4 hours by car. That alone sounds like an improvement for us, and if the company benefits also, so what? I can live with that. In other words, the train thing as it pertains to HKG-CAN I think could be a win-win.
No, I'm not bidding HKG, but I do realize that they could someday open a HKG MD11 base, in which case I would be affected. As a result, I'm voting against the LOA, just not because of the train issue. That part isn't a big thing for me, but the housing allowance and STV provisions are. Fix those, and I would vote differently.
Someone asked about trains in India or China. Nope, haven't done either, and don't plan to in India. Their rail safety is among the worst, if not the worst in the world. Between HKG and CAN, I would not be too worried, though. The LOA only allows for the use of a train between HKG/CAN and other international cities approved by the SIG. While our SIG may not always succeed when it comes to disputing pairings, I'm pretty sure we can count on them not to approve a long distance train ride such as SZX-PVG (800+ miles) or DEL-BOM (700+ miles.) The LOA may give an automatic blessing for 2:00+ g/t from HKG-CAN, but 8 B 1 b, requiring SIG approval for all g/t over 2 hours is still in effect everywhere else. HKG-CAN by train is only 1:40 according to what one of the SFS guys posted in another thread vs 3-4 hours by car. That alone sounds like an improvement for us, and if the company benefits also, so what? I can live with that. In other words, the train thing as it pertains to HKG-CAN I think could be a win-win.
07-03-2008 | 05:06 PM
#18
...Whatever It Is!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
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Jaxman,
No, I'm not bidding HKG, but I do realize that they could someday open a HKG MD11 base, in which case I would be affected. As a result, I'm voting against the LOA, just not because of the train issue. That part isn't a big thing for me, but the housing allowance and STV provisions are. Fix those, and I would vote differently.
No, I'm not bidding HKG, but I do realize that they could someday open a HKG MD11 base, in which case I would be affected. As a result, I'm voting against the LOA, just not because of the train issue. That part isn't a big thing for me, but the housing allowance and STV provisions are. Fix those, and I would vote differently.
07-04-2008 | 06:50 AM
#19
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Point taken, and I guess I should have clarified, I also voted against the original LOA for the same reasons. I'm voting against the amended LOA because the issues I had with the first LOA weren't fixed as part of the amendment. If they had been, with the tradeoff being the ground transport issue, I would be in favor of the amended LOA. Sorry for the confusion.
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