FDXFLYR

I'm wondering if we all should stop doing LIDO training. This new chart system is being pushed by the company not because they care so much about our backs. No sir, this is just a cost-saving program, nothing else. And since it is just that, why are we scrambling to complete the training while we're in the middle of stalled negotiations? Why don't we all instead, refuse to complete training until they settle the contract?

It isn't a safety issue because the company still must provide us the charts.

It won't impact us at all except having to continue lugging around our flight bags and that's not so bad, we've been doing that since the dawn of time. The company on the other hand will have to continue paying for both LIDO and Jepps which increases their costs, something they are trying hard to cut.

This seems to me to be a tool we could use right now. Am I missing something?

dckozak

Ok bid to fly with me, and since you have two hands, you can carry my Jepps (its not so bad)



I will agree, doing anything to help the company at this time could be construed as counter productive. On the other hand, I don't think the cost of paying both Jepps and LIDO adds up to much in the bigger scheme of things. I do think we benefit more than than do, near term in not having to carry/revise these hated pubs. Its like shooting ones self in the foot, to make a point.

FR8Hauler

Absolutely, getting rid of my 65 lb JEP back is almost as good as getting a good contract. Almost I said.

Ranger

Yes. An organized effort. The union can't even whisper about doing something like this. We'd get our butts handed to us in court just like the AA folks did. And it won't work if just a few did it.

To be honest with you, that option never even entered my mind. I've completed the training and have insisted on using the LIDO stuff since the beginning of the March bid month. I have the appropriate Jepp plates pulled out and ready but I try not to even look at them when I'm working the leg.

But as suggested already by many, I'm giving a 100% effort. And I'm looking forward to me days off and my vacation this summer.

FDXFLYR

Okay, I see your points. While deep inside I'm saying "...do NOTHING that benefits the company (right now)..." I too want to quit lugging the flight bag around. Thanks for your feedback.

TonyC

If you know me, you know I'm not in the mood to give "The Company" an inch until they get serious about negotiating our contract. That said, I don't believe LIDO is a contract issue.

I participated in the very first round of testing of EFB (Electronic Flight Bag) products, and we used both LIDO and Jeppesen products. In the EFB application, the LIDO product was far, far superior. Even with the difficulties encountered by not having ever laid eyes on LIDO before, it was FAR easier to use their product on a touchscreen tablet in the cockpit. The graphics were far easier to read, the interface was much more intuitive, and the cockpit workload was considerably less. It was clear even at that stage that LIDO had a product designed to be used on a computer, while Jeppesen had nothing more than a memory- and processor-hungry "viewer."

It is my opinion that LIDO was chosen due to its superiority over the Jeppesen EFB product. Even if it cost three times as much as Jeppesen (I doubt it does), it would be worth it.

Now, the hitch is the interim time between paper Jepps and Electronic LIDO. That's where we find ourselves learning how to use paper LIDO. Although it is a painful process, I don't think it's a scheme to hang up contract negotiations.

Coming from the Air Force, I never received formal training on "Jepps," yet I was expected to know how to use them. Many of us have transitioned from one type of approach plates to another without formal training. We were basically thrown into that figurative deep end and expected to sink or swim. That we are now given formal training, and compensation for completing that training, is something that I find refreshing. I don't think this is the foot that we should be shooting.


My hat's off to Capt Grover Trask, the individual that is responsible for driving this project forward. When you finally get to use the EFB, you should appreciate all his hard work in making this happen.


Do the CBT!






- The truth only hurts if it should -

FoxHunter

Hey Tony, Ya finallly got your reality straight.

TonyC

Hey, if you weren't so contrary, we could agree on more things!







- The truth only hurts if it should -

NightBusDriver

Poor staffing levels ("insufficient reserves"), constant Vacation BuyBack and AVA, asking for case-by-case duty limit waivers ... I agree LIDO may not be contract-related, but I'm tired of "going above and beyond" to move freight, enduring incompetence with ramp-related screw-ups, and waiting patiently for management to "throw us a bone." So maybe LIDO reluctance and practice bid shenanigans are the start of something bigger and more collective. Maybe we're ready for a deal that's long overdue??

No, but there are plenty of other schemes afoot. The "Mother of All Bids," scope payments, direct offer(s) to pilots, and the very slick handling of the Enders fiasco way back when. Maybe we're tired of the various managers/VPs double-talking with forked tongues...?

What/whose foot do you suggest? I'm ready to engage someone/something!

TonyC

I'll forgo pasting in the quotes to which the above refer since the theme is the same - - why go above and beyond when we've been waiting for over two years to get a new contract? Two years is too long.

I agree with you 100%. In fact, 100.0% is my goal every day - - 100%, and not a tenth more. Two years is too long.

Frankly, I think that MOAB was nothing more than the most recent example of the incompetence of this company in planning pilot manning. To concede that it was a scheme to throw us off balance in the negotaitions process gives them more credit than they deserve, in my opinion. Whether it was a scheme, or a scam, or just a blunder is really not relevant, though, is it? Two years is too long.

Scope payments - - another issue that gets folks riled up. Was the issue raised for the sole purpose of riling us up and taking our collective eye off the ball? Again, I don't see the Company being smart enough to plan to use wetleases so that we can be distracted by scope payments at this particular time. I think they just planned to use wet leases, and this is when they did it. Whose fault is it if we let the issue affect our focus? Ours. Again, two years is too long.


Direct offers to pilots? Yes, I think that was devised to take our eye off the ball, but it obviously was not well-enough devised, for it hardly made us blink. Shame on the Company for trying, but guess what - - it betrayed their lack of savvy and skill. If they can't come up with a direct offer that will distract us, why do we think they're smart enough to schedule wet leases or begin a program to transition to Electronic Flight Bags that will be timed precisely to distract us from negotiations? Two years is too long.


Vacation BuyBack and AVA? Those keen planners that determine staffing levels have counted on this because we have historically done it. For us to collectively change our approach to vacation might be considered an illegal work action. That said, I still make a personal decision about my own vacation, and my family needs me to take it when I can get it. Volunteer, Adavanced or otherwise, and Draft - - same story. I know that I will NOT wish on my deathbed that I had worked more. Two years is too long.


Tired of various managers/VPs double-talking with forked tongues? Well, you can only get tired of it if you take ANY of it seriously, and I don't. If there is going to be a Vacancy Posting, there will be an FCIF. If it's actually going to stand (we've seen bids cancelled) then we will see it close. Until then, no fortune-telling Manager with a folksy demeanor is going to fool me with an e-mail. You know the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME!" Well, we've all been fooled once - - it's time (no, it's past time) to stop listening to that mess and focus on what we know to be true - - Two years is too long.


Why are you "tired of 'going above and beyond' to move freight, enduring incompetence with ramp-related screw-ups, and waiting patiently for management to 'throw us a bone'"? I'm not tired of it - - because I don't do it! Refer to paragraph 2 above. 100.0% - - That's "One hundred POINT zero per cent." The Company counts on more than that, but my paycheck doesn't reflect it. Until I'm persuaded that the Company values the contribution I make to its incredible success by good-faith bargaining and the completion of a contract that recognizes our contributions, I'm giving 100.0%. Unfortunately, I don't think The Company is motivated to do that, and they won't be until more of us adopt the same mentality. I hope it happens soon, because Two Years is Too Long.




Back to LIDO - - well, you know where I stand now concerning negotiations, etc. I don't think LIDO is a scheme to distract us. I think it's a good thing. I don't think delaying our accomplishment of the CBT will affect negotiations a whit.




Whose foot? Well, I only know what I do. I fly what is scheduled, I don't bid carryover, I use the scheduled deadhead, I fly the flightplan, I take my vacations, and I wear my hat. Oh, and my standing bid is 737 Captain at 100%.







- The truth only hurts if it should -