Sideshow,
It is a fair question. But I think comparing a unionized pilot group agreeing to concessions in order to keep their jobs and an unemployed pilot working at any job he can get to support his family is not a fair comparison.

As union pilots we must agree as a matter of principal that we must not buy jobs with paycuts. If we do that when will it end? Our companies can and should compete for business but as a union pilot I believe we must never allow ourselves to compete for upgrades and jobs by lowering our salary. When pilot groups fall for that it hurts our whole profession.

I truely hope neither Astar nor ABX pilots take any paycuts to win the little DHL flying left. To me its not a matter of pride or ego, its a matter of right and wrong. And that would be very wrong

The only fruit left is the best and highest margin, who gets to handle the international traffic that DHL runs into and through the US. This is worth long and painstaking negotiations and I suspect UPS could see some gain by using DHLs infrastructure in Africa, the Middle East and most of Europe.
DHL only had 10%(if that) of the US market on it's best day.

Guys settle down. I just spoke to Scott Davis and Frank Appel and they both agreed to each buy half of FedEx. UPS will get the international portion and DHL will get the domestic part.

They are going to take the 4 airlines UPS,FEDEX,ABX,ASTAR merge them together and start an ACMI company called UFO Air. Then they will contract all the flying out to Kitty Hawk and Kalitta since they are cheaper.

Sorry. Good luck guys!

Ah Ha! I knew it!! :)

So it's the "100% pay until the last day" line in the sand then. So unless ABX offers the old contract, with no cuts everybody tells them to pound that sand. There are certainly different ways to look at the whole enchilada, as our friends at purple are in effect taking "pay cuts" via their contract to in essence prevent furloughs, and there has been limited discussion at brown although I doubt it will happen and it's not contractual.

Then there was the old USAir, late '80's early '90's where senior types were lining their pockets with open time and carrying huge credit banks (against the contract) keeping the furloughed on the street, so I guess it's all over the board. I guess it amounts to how bad one wants a paycheck.

It was a play on your words Francis...:rolleyes:

Like the old guys say, I'd rather be lucky than good. But poking fun at absurdity is often just too tempting to pass up, and you should know that.

I do, and I did.

Sideshow,
Sometimes it is a difficult choice for union pilot groups to decide which is more important maintaining decent pay and work rules or keeping as many pilots as possible working. Both you guys and FedEx pilots may be faced with that dilemna at some point (Of course, I hope not). Almost every situation is different. The ABX and Astar pilots and maybe the Delta/Northwest regional pilots may find themselves in a postion where they are pitted against each other.

Here is where I am coming from, there isnt enough DHL flying for both ABX and Astar and no matter which company secures the little flying left there will be furloughs. The company that doesnt secure the flying will probably shut down. Either way Ill probably lose my job. And if I lose my job, I may very well end up at ATI, Cappy, Arrow, or World. Some of those pilot groups are in negotiations now, and all of them have contracts much worse than ABX or Astar. If one takes pay cuts and the other shuts down, that would make it that much more difficult for those other groups to make improvements. So Im not just drawing a line in the sand on principal. For my own sake I am trying to help keep the pay and benifits where they should be for all the ACMI pilot groups and all others for that matter. (By the way, while Astar and ABX contracts aren't as good as UPS or FedEx they are better than all the pax airlines except maybe for
Southwest.)

Anyway, I hope Im not the only one that sees it that way.

Maybe it's behind Door C
 

Making the decision even harder is the possibility that it's a "false choice", and neither alternative is required. Management officials have been known to bluff.

Sage advice.

ABX is in negotiations right now, and it looks like it will be a contract that will reflect life in the ACMI world after DHL. But to their credit, and rightly so, 1224 is steadfast in their resolve to maintain their current rates and rules so long as they fly DHL material under their current agreement with DHL.

AStar, on the other hand is in limbo. We have no idea what life for us will be a year from now. But if that life means continued service for DHL, there will be no give backs, snap backs or bend over backs. Period.
Dasburg is all about the "false choice". He has been dangling one carrot or another for years. But as we all know, those carrots were rotten at the core.

As you said Tom, beware the "false choice". We all need to see it for what it is and stay the coarse.

FAJ